Teacher pay, school choice, calendar flexibility: NC superintendent shares thoughts on top education topics
North Carolina Superintendent Mark Johnson was a guest on "Education Matters" TV show Saturday and answered questions about a wide range of education topics, including teacher pay, calendar flexibility, school choice and whether he'll run again for state superintendent.
Here are eight topics "Education Matters" host Keith Poston asked the superintendent about during the interview, which aired on WRAL-TV. The exchanges have been edited for length and clarity. You can watch the full episode on WRAL.com.
NC needs to be 'aggressive' in raising teacher pay
North Carolina's teacher pay is a hot topic every year, especially what raises are appropriate. North Carolina currently ranks 37th in the nation for average teacher pay and fifth in the Southeast, according to the National Education Association. Johnson has gone on record saying he'd like to see 5 to 7 percent pay raises for teachers. He talked about teacher pay more in depth on the show and explained why he thinks it's important.
Johnson: We need to not only show them appreciation with a raise and make that very well known, but we also have the teacher pipeline issue. We have less qualified candidates coming into the teacher pipeline, but even when they get in the pipeline, it’s a leaky pipeline. We have teachers coming out, first, second, third year, already feeling burned out and they move into a different profession because of the competitiveness …
I picked that number, 5 percent. I said at least 5 percent because that is across the board, every educator. If we invest the same amount that we’ve been investing for previous budgets, we can do that. But I’ve also pushed us and said I want to talk about 7 percent because that would help us become one of the top in the south. We are close to being top in the South. That should be our goal ... Yes, there will be other states with higher teacher salaries, such as Massachusetts and New York and California. But they also have higher cost of living. So when I say best place to teach, we need to look at the entire package. And part of that is just staying very competitive with the median household income in North Carolina. Right now, average teacher salary is already over the median household income but we need to outpace it even more. We need to be aggressive.
Does he support reinstating master's pay for teachers?
A Senate bill filed last month would restore master's degree and doctoral pay for some of North Carolina's public school teachers. In the past, teachers got a 10 percent pay bump from the state for having a master's degree. Lawmakers cut the pay in 2013. The North Carolina Association of Educators say restoring master's pay "would be huge" for teachers. Should it be returned? Johnson hedged.
Johnson: We’re working on that one, and that’s one where we know we’re really going to have to focus on this new idea of master’s with the subject, but I tell you, that’s why I’m so passionate about professional teacher cohorts because the local district can decide what the experienced teacher needs to show in order to be that master teacher, that mentor, and one of those things could be a master’s degree.
Johnson explained why he wants to focus more on professional development for teachers.
Johnson: Professional teaching cohorts would allow new teachers, first-, second-, third-year teachers, to come in earlier than the rest of the teachers in the district. They’d get paid for that time. They’d get professional development during that time. That is very important for the skills they need, but also for the job satisfaction, they need to have that cohort, that group of support. They would also then have a mentor, an experienced teacher … that could be an experienced teacher who would also get that pay bump.
Who has the best school construction spending plan?
How to pay for school construction is likely to be a top negotiating topic during this year's session between GOP lawmakers and Gov. Roy Cooper.
House Republicans back a $1.9 billion education bond referendum. Senate Republicans have offered an alternative that wouldn't include issuing debt, but rather would set aside additional tax collections that senators say would generate $2 billion each for K-12 schools, UNC and community colleges over nine years. Gov. Roy Cooper's two-year budget would seek to borrow twice as much as state House Republicans are proposing in their respective proposed construction bond referendums.
Johnson has previously shown support for the House's proposal, and Poston questioned whether he still supports it.
Poston: Do you still think that is the best option? Are you still pushing the House plan?
Johnson: I’ll tell you right now, I am very happy that there is bipartisan support for over $2 billion to be invested in schools.
Poston: Yeah, but that’s not the (question). Do you not favor the House plan anymore?
Johnson: We are going to have to see how this works out over the summer because I can tell you, this is going to be a very long summer. This is going to be a long session. We know (Gov.) Roy Cooper, he just previewed that his bond is going to be about $4 billion – $4 BILLION dollars. So, we know the House is not going to go with that. So now we’ve got Gov. Cooper, we’ve got the House, we’ve got the Senate all with different plans. They’re going to be working all summer to negotiate to see what the best plan is. If they want a suggestion from the state superintendent, we can do a $1 bond and $1 billion pay-as-you-go right now and call it a day. But my main concern, truthfully, in all seriousness, is making sure we’re being wise spenders when it comes to those funds but also making sure we’re really focusing on rural North Carolina … I am very passionate about making sure we get the funds out to rural North Carolina so we don’t just patch up, we rebuild bigger, better, stronger, true 21st Century learning environments for all students.
How should NC handle private school vouchers?
Poston questioned the superintendent about unspent money in North Carolina's private school voucher program, known as Opportunity Scholarships. The General Assembly started the program in 2013 with $10 million, offering up to $4,200 in taxpayer funds to low-income families who want to send their children to a non-public school.
Poston: Look, you have been a supporter of private school vouchers, of school choice, things that (U.S. Secretary of Education) Betsy DeVos and others in the legislature have been pushing … It’s been reported that there are millions of dollars that are being unspent in the Opportunity Scholarship Program. The numbers I saw, about $17 million this year. There’s $55 million in the budget, but only $32 million has been paid out … Sen. Phil Berger’s response to that was, we should loosen the voucher rules to get more money flowing. House education Chairman Craig Horn said it’s time to right-size the program because we have other priorities in education. Who’s right?
Johnson: I can tell you as a leader of a department that, no, we should not loosen regulations for these Opportunity Scholarships … Just so your viewers know, the Department of Public Instruction does not run these Opportunity Scholarships. It’s a separate government agency.
Poston: Yeah, but I mean, you do cheerlead them on … from your bully pulpit.
Johnson: Look, I believe in public education as a good. It is something that the public system of government should make sure that every student has the opportunity to work hard and succeed. I believe that the steps we’re taking in our traditional schools will make traditional schools the best option. We know that right now, unfortunately, we don’t like it, but there are some situations where it’s not the best option right now for all students. That gives these students an opportunity to succeed. I want to see the day where public schools are the best option.
Should schools get calendar flexibility?
School calendars are strictly defined by state law in North Carolina. School cannot start before the Monday closest to Aug. 26 and it must end no later than the Friday closest to June 11. Each year, dozens of lawmakers seek calendar flexibility for their school districts, and this year is no exception. In his shortest answer of the interview, Johnson shared his thoughts on the topic.
Poston: Do you support giving all North Carolina school districts calendar flexibility?
Johnson: Yes.
'Brutally honest' conversation about support for struggling schools
Poston got "brutally honest" with the superintendent while discussing how the state Department of Public Instruction supports struggling schools and shared complaints he has heard from local superintendents.
Poston: I’ll be brutally honest. When I talk to district superintendents, they tell me that the district support, that they don’t bother right now looking to DPI because there’s no one there to help them and there’s no resources. Is that a fair observation?
Johnson: You know, it’s fair in a sense to what they used to have. I mean, you’re exactly right, they used to have a team that was deployed to go into the lowest-performing schools and act as consultants, and we know that work was about 50 percent successful. It was not 100 percent successful. It was 50-50. Some schools that those DPI consultants went into actually did worse. So that was still not something I supported cutting. We ultimately had to make cuts and that’s where we had to go because that’s something that started under Race to the Top and there are, unfortunately, just, there are regulatory jobs that DPI just has to get done. What we are doing that I’m very excited about is we are actually shifting all of DPI so the whole focus of DPI is regional support … What we are building, and we are building this out now is a DPI that will, by education regions, have a true education support network. So, superintendents will have one point where they can call with any question they have … Do I wish we had more people behind it? Absolutely.
Career pathways a 'top passion'
Johnson often speaks about career pathways during his speeches and says he wants students to know college is not the only option for them after high school. During his interview with Poston, he highlighted that topic again, calling it a one of his "top passions."
Johnson: You know one of my top passions is career pathways … Not telling students, ‘You’re only good enough for this path’ … but also not making students feel like college is the only pathway to success.
Poston: You know, career pathways is a tough … I’ll be honest with you, sometimes it bothers me because I feel like we talk about college isn’t for everyone and we should have these other paths, but a lot of folks say it – you’re a lawyer, you went to law school, and I went to a four-year university. It feels kinda like, "Yeah, that’s good for other kids."
Johnson: Here’s what I say to that … I’m a supporter of school choice and a lot of school choice proponents say, ‘Well, you’re telling all the kids in our neighborhood, ‘Don’t go to college,’ but you’re sending your kids to college.’ What I say is we need to paint the full picture for every student, including what kind of student debt you’re going to take on and what you can expect to make after college … You’re exactly right. This cannot be a pigeon hole, one type of student versus another type of student. This a broad spectrum that needs to be embraced by everyone.
Is he running for re-election?
Four Democrats have announced they are running for state superintendent in 2020. Johnson, a Republican, has yet to say whether he'll run again. Poston pressed him to answer but was unsuccessful.
Poston: You have not announced whether you’re running for re-election. This is a perfect opportunity. Are you running for re-election?
Johnson: There is so much work to get done in 2019.
Poston: Oh, come on.
Johnson: My focus is 2019. My focus right now are the students and educators of North Carolina. This is going to be a long summer. There’s going to be a lot of work to get done. But it’s good work, and I think we can set ourselves on the right path to have a great decade ahead.
