FEMA denials hurting Helene recovery efforts, NC officials tell state lawmakers

Western North Carolinians still need debris piles removed from storefronts and waterways. But it’s not happening quickly, state officials said Wednesday, because the federal government has been unusually aggressive in denying requests for aid in recent months.

“If a procurement policy locally is not followed to a T, it's an opportunity for FEMA to come back and say, ‘You did not follow your procurement policy, therefore this was an invalid procurement, and therefore what you expended as a result of this procurement is not eligible for reimbursement,’” Will Ray, the state's director of emergency management, told a legislative subcommittee focused on disaster response.

The increasingly frequent denials are raising serious financial concerns about how much money local communities will wind up on the hook to pay for, Ray told the Joint Legislative Commission on Governmental Operations’ Subcommittee on Hurricane Response.

When Hurricane Sandy hit New York City in 2012 under President Barack Obama, for instance, and also when Hurricane Maria hit Puerto Rico in 2017 during President Donald Trump's first term in office, and when Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans in 2005 under President George Bush, the federal government paid more than 70% of the total costs of responding to those storms.

But now, as Trump seeks to slash government spending and is pushing to eliminate FEMA during his second term in office, the federal government has paid for just 6% of the estimated costs of Helene recovery.

Ray alleged that FEMA has been looking for any minor technicality it can cite to deny requests for aid. For example, he said, FEMA will reimburse work to clear waterways like clearing mud, rocks and trees out of rivers and streams. But there have been cases where the workers doing that work also felt they needed to clear away some debris that was right next to the water, but not technically in the water, and FEMA will cite that to deny all of the funding for the work.

A FEMA spokesperson requested more information before offering comment.

Rep. Jake Johnson, R-Polk, said his western North Carolina constituents have been incredibly frustrated with the nitpicking. There will be piles of debris stacked up right next to each other, he said, and the local work crews will say they're allowed to clear one of the piles but not the other. That's slowing down work and preventing businesseses from reopening, he said, since they need all the debris removed and not just some of it.

"It just seems so inefficient to us," Johnson said. "Just looking at that mess and seeing we've already got the equipment out there — and it's not cheap to move this type of equipment; they're literally in the river — and you're not allowed to touch one, but it's touching one you are allowed to touch?"

Ray acknowledged that is happening, and he said it's specifically because of the federal government's ramped-up efforts to find reasons to deny reimbursements.

FEMA aid often comes in the form of reimbursements paid to state or local governments for work they've already done. The idea is to let local responders quickly jump into action, without wasting time debating what they can afford, knowing that the federal government will help out later.

But with denials now coming more frequently, it's raising serious financial concerns about how much money local communities will wind up on the hook to pay for.

After so many denials, Ray told Johnson, local work crews are being more cautious about what they do or don't do. He's already tried getting North Carolina's members of Congress to talk with the Trump administration about these concerns, he said, and he urged the state's Republican-led legislature to make similar efforts.

"We've tried to work, especially with the congressional delegation, on articulating to leadership in Washington, D.C., that they need to come and see, and understand some of these decisions that are being made — what the cascading impact of that actually is on the ground," Ray said.

Rep. Karl Gillespie, R-Macon, led Wednesday's oversight hearing. He encouraged Ray and Matt Calabria, the director of the Governor's Recovery Office for Western North Carolina, to get the work done no matter what.

Calabria, who leads Helene response, also testified Wednesday. He and Ray report to Gov. Josh Stein, a Democrat.

"The folks in western North Carolina, a lot of them, don't care about what we're talking about today," Gillespie told Ray and Calabria after both testified about frustrations with FEMA. "What they care about is help. ... They want to see this being accomplished. And you're tasked with that."

Ray said the work could go more quickly if the legislature decides to appropriate more state dollars for the response, to make up for the slowdown in federal aid, but he acknowledged that's a policy decision up to the legislature to make as it also grapples with other state funding needs. So far the Republican-led legislature has approved over $2 billion in state aid for Helene, a fraction of what Stein has asked them for. Helene is estimated to have done more than $60 billion in damage to North Carolina.

Debris creates economic, fire concerns

More than 15 million tons of debris have already been hauled out of the mountains in the nine months since Helene killed over 100 North Carolinians and brought devastating flooding and landslides to dozens of western counties.

Calabria said the debris cleared away so far amounted to 14 million cubic yards — enough to stretch from one side of the Earth to the other if stacked end to end.

But more is still sitting around, piled up in lakes and rivers or sitting on the side of the road. And with it come multiple concerns.

Businesses that rely on the water like fishing guides, tubing places and waterfront restaurants have struggled to return, said Johnson, whose district includes Lake Lure — a scenic, tourist-friendly town that was devastated by Helene.

Wildfire risks are also growing because a relatively dry 2025 has turned many piles of debris into piles of potential kindling. And flooding is now a greater risk than before, since local rivers are more shallow due to the debris still packing them.

Rivers that used to only flood after eight inches of rain now flood after four inches of rain, said Sen. Ralph Hise, R-Mitchell, whose home of Spruce Pine was among the hardest-hit parts of the state. Hise warned that western North Carolina residents are growing frustrated with the situation on the ground, and he urged Ray and Calabria to keep state lawmakers informed on how they can best help.

"People's patient wears thin when their homes have been destroyed, their communities have been destroyed," Hise said. "There's large debris piles still on the ground, and we're worried how fast they're going to light up if we don't start getting rain again."

State, federal responses

Ray said they need help pushing the Trump administration to be more forthcoming with funds. One problem, he said, is that Homeland Security boss Kristi Noem, who oversees many agencies including FEMA, has instituted a new policy that any order for more than $100,000 must be approved by her personally.

In the multibillion-dollar work of emergency response — as well as area like immigration enforcement, counter-terrorism, and border security that Noem also oversees — that increase in paperwork has also slowed down work approvals and disater response efforts.

Sen. Tim Moffitt, R-Henderson, asked Ray if he thought FEMA leaders understood that responding to a hurricane in the mountains is very different than responding to a hurricane in flatter coastal areas. He brought up his question in response to the list of other major storms that have received substantially more federal funding than Helene has.

"When I look at this list of storms here, what really stands out is that the only storm that hit an area that is mountainous, is Helene," Moffitt said. "Do you get a sense that FEMA understands that this is not an easy task?"

"I think they are starting to," Ray said, reiterating his hope that Trump administration officials will come visit western North Carolina to get a better sense of the work that still needs to be done.

Trump himself came to western North Carolina just days after being sworn in as president in January. He gave a speech in Asheville urging the elimination of FEMA but has not been back since.

It's not just Helene recovery that's taken a hit because of new FEMA policies. North Carolina is also suing the federal government over the Trump administration's attempt to undo more than $200 million in grants, through FEMA, for projects to make future storms less bad by alleviating flooding concerns building storm shelters and other work.