UNC-CH chancellor speaks with community members
UNC-Chapel Hill Chancellor Kevin Guskiewicz answers questions about the resumption of classes on campus amid the coronavirus pandemic.
leadership, and I'll just, ah, shared with them a quote that I just really liked. And it resonated with me from one of our alums, Lindsay Ray McIntyre, chief diversity officer at Microsoft. I met out in Seattle back in October, and she said that it's during times like this, uh, for leaders to really reflect on the difference that they can make and that it's most important that we create space toe, listen to members of each community and to understand what is needed in moments like this and that we have to embrace the discomfort of not knowing of not being certain of not understanding, and then I'll be motivated enough to learn and get better. And so that's what we're trying to do here at Carolina, and I'm committed toe listening to our entire campus community. I was on a call the other day with three or more career Web who I know, spoke it. Ah, recent Rotary Club meeting. Greer's one of my favorite students here at Carolina. Uh, he's, uh, was on a zoom called with him earlier this week to discuss the students goals for moving forward and some of the challenges with this coming semester, and so we have a lot of work to do, and we're committed to it. So, um, I can't underestimate the impact that Corona virus the Corona Viruses had Copa 19 has had on our campus at the sheriff a little bit about our planes that, as you well know that the uh, positive cases across North Carolina is concerning, and it's not what we had hoped for certainly affected at this time. But it's affecting not only the state, but certainly he us here in Chapel Hill's. We're trying to plan ahead for the fall, but despite the challenges we face, our team and Carolina remains hopeful, and we're working tirelessly to try to ensure that we can reopen our camp safely. And as I've told people, we never really shut down. But we, uh, certainly are working toward, ah, phase reopening of most of our operations, with most people working remotely over these past five months, but showing up every day at Carolina. I'm grateful to our infectious disease experts for their wisdom and guidance. They've done an incredible job. You've seen them on the news, the national news. You've seen them it in the local news, but they're making a difference in. But we're listening closely to their direction, as we consider what safe for the fall. We have launched our fall 2020 roadmap, probably about eight or nine weeks ago now, and it's been really lead by six guiding principles. The first of those is that we aspire to be that leading global public research university. That I know we will. It will be, can be. But during times like this, great universities have to rise to the occasion. Help society too, Really t to think about that next. Whatever that next pandemic toe lead and show society how to adapt, uh, and to take on the next grand challenge of our time. But regardless of whether we're in person or remote, will accomplish that mission, we are obviously focused on the safety and well being the campus community, and that will remain our top priority. But I've already said we're just really unfortunate to be guided by this. These leading global, um, public health and infectious disease experts we have here we're going toe have off road map off ramps that we're looking at is we think about the virus not responding in the way that we had hoped that it would. We're looking at trying to de identify campus as much as possible and thinking about how people that do come back to work and work in shifts, if you will, so that we don't have a lot of people in one building at one time or are in person classes, which right now we're planning for about 50% of those to be in person, 50% remote, and, um, but those classrooms will look very different. Will have no more than 50 students in a classroom. In most cases, smaller numbers 25 to 30. But, uh, we're preparing for whatever the that the virus will will bring in terms of you were preparing for a second wave, which is why we decided to start early and Enderle by Thanksgiving so we wouldn't send everybody home and then come back from Thanksgiving to finish out. Those last three or four weeks we won't be doing that will be finished by November 24. And, ah, we'll send everybody home and ah and hope that we can focus on the spring semester at that point. But we're working on what will define these off ramps, if you will. You know what would cause us to pivot? That we're looking at how the campus community will adhere to the community standards and the guidelines that we've put in place and they're part of our road map that you can Fine. If you If you're interested on our website, it's called Carolina together dot u n c dot edu and, uh, Right. So we're gonna be monitoring cup people are following those standards. We're gonna look at the national regional and local trends in the virus. Prevalence of the virus will look at the availability of rapid and accurate testing for contact. Tracing on our campus will look at the continuity of critical functions on our campus and how the health care and hospital systems were able to manage, um, positive cases should there be an outbreak. We're very fortunate here in on campus to have a world class healthcare system, right, uh, are back at our back door And, uh, as I've told people, that's probably not a 10 mile radius in the country that I'd rather be living in than the one that we live in right here in Chapel hill with the squirrel class university and health care system. But we have to, you know, be looking at this carefully and, uh uh, no, that we may have to pivot and taken off ramp at some point. But I will say that Mayor Pam Hemminger has been wonderful to work with regular discussions with her, particularly in terms of the economic consequences of decisions that are made for the town and as well as the safety of our students up in town that the folks who here running the restaurants and bars and shops We all are in this together and have to be sure we're protecting each other. But we know that this will not be a typical fall semester. We need toe change our behavior on campus, that here, to these community standards of wearing masks, uh, you may have seen the video the coach Williams put out two weeks ago about the importance of mask wearing. It's gonna be seeing a lot more of these public service announcements over the next few weeks. It's hand hygiene. It's, ah, social distance, properly distancing, and we're just gonna have to really stay true to what were, But we know can keep our community safe. So a zai wrap up. There's no playbook for this, but we're working hard to implement a plan in a collaborative way, and we need your help and ah ah, and look forward to hearing the questions and ideas that you might have today. So thank you. And I guess I'll turn it over and out back toe Will and Jim and really appreciate the opportunity to be here. Well, Chancellor, thank you so much for getting us started with our conversation today. We were grateful for you being with us, like to ask our each of you are in attendance. Now, If you haven't, you can go ahead and pose a question to the chancellor through the zoom portal through chat again. Choose Thea possible choose questions member on chat and now to gym for our first Jim Hefner for our first follow up question. Well, the top question Chester, thanks for being with us today that the question that I probably hear more than anything else is that the university can set the format for what you do in classes and, um, and within a program campus events. But when students go back to their dorms. Um, and they are not under the supervision of the campus. The students are still students. They've always been of the age that they are today, which is having their own need for socialization. How did in the dorms that there's a widespread feeling that the dorms are just would be hotbeds as super spreaders? How do you I plan to deal with that. How do you process that? Sure, Jim. Good question. And that's certainly been part of the concerns we think about how to reopen campus operations. The residents halls are challenge. We have fired many more. Housekeepers and janitorial services were using new disinfectants and things for the common areas on campus. That's gonna be a major part of it. But it's really gonna be about emphasizing the need to change behaviors. And so we're holding special orientations for students. We're also China has already mentioned to de identify those residential hold. We normally have about 8500 students living in our residents holes. We plan on having significantly, uh, fewer this year. We don't know exactly how many we've had a ah number of students you require about canceling their housing contracts, and we're allowing them to do that because we, you know we have sufficient number, of course, is that can be taught remotely off campus. And so we will really work hard. It's gonna be about just continue to educate them about the importance of of hygiene, mask wearing and ah, distancing. But once they're in that dorm room or dorm suite with 6 to 8 people, we treat them in our infectious disease. Experts have provided guidance around this year. They're treated as a family and under that situation. But once they leave that sweet, they will be expected to wear masks. And so that everybody has said David Weber and Mike Cohen and others that you probably have had speak to your group before have said that the masks that's the key, the key protection feature here to this chancellor. As you we all know. One of the impressive things about University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill is that we have people from all over the world to come and study here, and I have a lot of international students and so on. My question is, next question is, will there be any study abroad, travel this year and along those same lines a second port Folks who who attend our university, who would normally be in people from other countries who would normally be in residence. Ah, here on campus, at you and see, Will they be able to take their courses online from their home country? Yeah, good question. So let me just say that I'm one of the things as dean of the college of work in science I worked really hard at was to try to increase study abroad opportunities for students at Carolina, and we actually climbed in the rankings. In that regard over the past five years, we were reached. Just reached About 42% of our students were studying abroad over the past two years, and that's up from about 22% just seven or eight years ago. So we're proud of that. But obviously this year the virus is creating a major challenge for us in that regard. And so we are providing opportunities in just a few countries for this fall. We're hoping toe to be ableto allow for about more opportunities in the spring. But for this fall right now, the only two programs that are still being considered. Ah, is Hong Kong and South Korea these air to, uh, places that have gotten their situation under control? It's very safe. They've had, uh, fact, in many ways, I wish that we had followed their lead here in the US with how they they were two of the countries that regions of the world that were hit pretty early, but they got it under control. So we're look still looking at those two options for students to travel this fall. And, um, hopefully won't put more for the spring. And then, um, for those international students who can't get to Caroline and we have a new program called Carolina Away, it'll take up to 1000 students, and it's gonna be an incredible program. We've been talking about trying to create something like this and all remote semester for students who want to be here. But can't be here on this just sort of expedited. Our planning process is being led by Steve Farmer and Rudy Colorado Man spill and, uh, but it will create learning community, have learning community communities one around global business and other around global health, and ah, there will actually be a featured course that they'll have to take the students around Cove in 19 research investigations. And so some of the who have about 18 to 20 courses offered just around code so that our experts can actually, you know, share their knowledge and expertise around the world. So that opportunity will be there. So, Chancellor, when the university opens and students come back to town, the the whole town comes alive. Everything changes overnight. And so the town in the gown are inseparable. What are you doing to coordinate what you're doing with the town in the county and the officials of the local police? All the rest of that with regard to, uh, how to have, uh, keep this place is safe is you want it to bay? Yes. So we're, as I said earlier. And mayor hamburgers been great. Penny rich and and others, We've had conversations with them. We are, you know, as an example, talked with Mayor Hamburger about two weeks ago, and I was very concerned about some of the cases that we were seeing just a campus health. We had been doing really well and then we had suddenly about 14 to 18 cases over a fairly short period of time. And and, ah, the contact tracing really works. I will tell you, because you, through that contact tracing, you learn where that virus was picked up on and potentially spread. And we were learning that this was happening at some of the places up on Franklin Street where students were beginning to gather. And I share that concern with the mayor and she said, Well, I have a meeting Tuesday evening and I'm gonna bring this up and we're going to discuss it will through over the course of several days Way found that that new ordinance was put in place where they were closing down the restaurants and bars and things by by 10 oclock and, well, no, probably in another week to 10 days. If that's working, I suspect that it is. That's just one example of how our witness, working together in a coordinated fashion, were also our police chief in our public safety team. Here is working closely in a coordinated effort with both Scarborough and Chapel Hill's police force, and to try to be sure, how can we enforce the community standards, and how are we going to engage our law enforcement officers to help us, especially when we're trying to really work on building trust between our police force and the community, the students in our case and staff and faculty s so that they're not, You know, certainly we're not gonna be resting people for not wearing a mask that we have to find ways that we can utilize the appropriate people to try toe, convince people of the importance of accepting those community standards and adhering to them. So we're working on that right now. I think it represents a just a huge challenge there, and it's it's impressive the the work that's going into making the university control, the pieces that are under your control directly, that's impressive, the systems that have already been put in place. But I think the you just highlighted the potential shortcoming and another example that we wonder about would be fraternities and sororities. And we've got the primary goal of fraternities and sororities is to foster social bonding and an active social life. And it would seem that those two would be a potential super spreading kind of source and we're question is, will they be permitted to open and hold regular activities like Russia and so on this fall. So we have been in regular conversations with Interfraternity Council and Hellenic Council, others talking about the plans for the fall for opening up. And it's gonna be a very different fall semester here, a hairline. And we've made it very clear that these large gatherings will not happened. They cannot happen. That would be an off ramp if we find that the Greek system is not cooperating with, uh, with us with regard to these community standards, we, uh that could be a reason that we you shut everything down again. And we have to be smart about how we're taking on this virus and ah, the I. I know that there's talk about having potentially some of the attorney stories still having a rush, but it would be done remotely, not too different from how we're doing it right here. In the absence of these larger social gap gatherings, Zoom, you know, has worked really well for most of the functions that we've been that we need to carry out the work of university, and I think they're looking at ways to do that. But I will tell you that we're serious about this. Ah, I've had two conversations just this week regarding Greek life and, uh, working closely with student affairs Jonathan souls and, uh, does rhetoric Limburger, Dina students on this topic. I understand the concerns by about the town by citizens members of the community about this because this is about protecting everybody, the chance that you've talked about off ramps. I think most of us would just say that when you say off ramp, that means shut it down, is that correct? Yeah. We've been using the word off ramp because we talked about a roadmap. We built this road map for the fall 2020. And so, uh, we were talking earlier in the spring. We had to pivot way pivoted Teoh a remote environment. Since we have a road map, we're just calling these, um, calling them off ramps. You know, Exit 18 b might be that we have to shut down a residence hall exit 21 a. Might be that we have toe, um, you know, go entirely remote for certain classes because the size of the class is too large and it's just not working because there's been a a cluster repository cases or it could be the entire shutdown Jim that you just mentioned of came on campus operations. So along those same lines, if they, uh, we're talking about off ramps Uh huh. How big can, how large a population of patients can UNC student health handle. And what are you doing to expand that if need be and then kind of related to that? Is there a point where you would say, there there are So maybe ask the question another way. What are all of the off ramps? Would it include a number of patients that were coming off the campus into student health? That you would say, OK, that's enough. We've got to shut it now. That's a metric that we're looking at. We're working closely with U. N C Health care right now. Fortunately, they are not at capacity or near capacity, but one of our off ramps would be that UNC health care that would manage potential patients who are infected was reaching capacity or that are isolations face or quarantine space. We we've no cleared to residential halls that will be used for isolation or quarantine space And if those were at or near capacity, that would be an off ramp such that we couldn't safely isolate potentially infected students on campus. So, yes, we're working close with UNC Healthcare. I don't have the number of hospital beds that it would take that were filled before we were taken off ramp. But the U. S C. Health care officials are working to help guide our decision making on this and way reaching that capacity. We would certainly taken off if you shut it down. Would educated classes stopper? Would they all go online? Well, if we had to shut down? Yes, we would. Those mentioned earlier about 50% of our classes. Right now we're planning to offer in person, and those would then that have to be converted to on all remote learning environment. And the good news is that right now 90% of our courses are set up to be taught remotely, even if they're scheduled to be taught in person right now. And we also have this hybrid model where many faculty will be teaching, uh, in person in a classroom while the course is being recorded and, um, and taken in and what we call a synchronous manner remotely by students at the same time that they could be living in California, Ohio, taking that class because they decided not to come back to be a residential student. So we have a lot of flexibility. Gavin. Well, I think it's quite clear. I think you said it. Well, you said this is gonna be a fall. That's not like one we've not seen before and it's everything is gonna be different will pivot a little bit. I think now and I know something. It's a topic that's on the mind of many of our members and most anybody and in the area who is a UNC Athletics fan? Can you tell us a little bit about the current thoughts on athletics this fall? Will we play sports this fall? I'll tell you again, and I'm increasingly more worried about that. We we have ah, really important call coming up this week, this coming Wednesday with the A. C C presidents on Chancellor's, where we'll be receiving AH report from Sports Medicine Advisory Committee for the A. C. C, and I think we'll have more information at that point. But I think you've already seen. The Ivy League has basically shut down all competition for this fall. At least two conferences have the Big 10 and I think the Pac 12 have already said they will only play in conference. I love games and so their work reworking all of their schedules and eso we're we're working toward trying to find the safest path. As I've said repeatedly, it's the health and safety of our not on our campus community. But if it's the community at large and we want to be sure that if we're gonna having athletic season, we have to think about knowing they're student athletes but those who would potentially be attending games, how we would handle that. So we're working tirelessly to try to get to the right place. But I will say that I'm increasingly more concerned about about the likelihood of a sports season for at least starting on time. It could even be that it's a later start because we're still, you know, not seeing a drop in the number of cases here locally on the sports front, Chancellor might, um when I when we begin to look at the social and the economic impact of football because it's a huge just it's important in so many ways. Has the concept of playing this season in the spring been considered? I'm sorry, Jim. I want to make sure you broke up for one second. That has the has the prospect of playing among the considerations as possibility of playing in the spring been considered playing football in the spring? Yes, Yeah, that's that's been discussed. And there are a number of other conferences under that are considering it. I anticipate we'll hear that as a possible option for us. And, uh, that would be interesting. And, uh, you know, and that there's a lot of assumptions that go with that, Which would be that by spring, we would be, you know, probably have a vaccine for the virus. And, uh, better therapeutics more available therapeutics for those who would, uh, contract the virus, so Well, uh, is that I would like to ask you What do you think of that plan? You think spring football sounds like fun? Well, I think we adjusted to a lot of things in the past, and it's an outdoor sport, and that's a lovely time to be outdoors. There is that there's a general sense that somehow, some way, people just want to see us play football. Thinking about all that, there is the possibility, just a possibility. I do not believe it's probability that we will have vaccines by the middle of the winter. But, heck, Europe, you come out of the medical research area. Uh, when you're talking to your epidemiologists, do you think we'll have a back 16 during the school year? I'll tell you, we're much closer today than we were just five months ago. And that's the other thing. When people say, you know why you're really trying to ramp up some of the campus operations and try toe get back to some sense of normalcy and why is that? You know, which is talking to a group yesterday about this and I said, Well, we know so much more about this virus today than we then we did just ah, you know, four or five months ago and proud to say that a lot of that's because of our incredible infectious disease in public health experts here at Carolina, Uh, the we have a clinical trial that's being conducted here right now, I think there's about three or four clinical trials and around the country right now for the early stage of vaccine and one of those being done right here by our experts, Mike Cohen and his team and, uh, Ralph Barracks, working on remedies, severe the the antiviral medication and making great progress on both those fronts. So I think and again, I'm not an expert on this, Although I have been hanging out with them for the past several months, I feel like I can speak certainly much more articulate than I could just a few months ago. I think it's likely we'll have being a much better place with it by March April. But I'm not sure about December January, which is probably going to dictate how we move forward for the spring semester. But we're getting closer within the context of athletics and I guess beyond for the monetary. The financial implications of this for everything have been huge. Start specifically with athletics. If there's no if there's not a football season, what are the budget budgetary issues that come out of all of this when what does that do to to revenue to costs and any concerns about threats to the budgets. It's, ah, significant. I mean, I football is the big revenue generator. And, uh, part of the revenue comes from ticket sales concessions, just the you know. And it drives the economic engine up in town as you well know, and um and then about half of it. That revenue comes from TV revenue. And so that's why a lot of conferences air considering. Well, even if we could play safely for those student athletes but play with in the absence of fans, uh, the TV revenue would bring in close to 1/2 of what they would otherwise be be bringing in. And so that's all on the table for consideration. But it's huge, and, as you well know, it's It's those larger revenue generators, football men's basketball that also helps support our other Olympic teams. And so we're working hard to try to make sure that they can states ordered. And, uh so it's Ah, it's very concerning right now, in a moment, we're gonna turn to questions from the from it that are coming from out in the field and a reminder that if you have a question, just go to the chat room and look for questions and, uh, they, um And then ask your question. I want to follow up on that, and from you, there are two buckets of money. As I understand it, you've got the athletic department, and then you've got the campus at large. If you are a state supporting university, um, what are the impacts on the campus itself? Um, do you, uh, do you collect all? You will collect the same approximate revenue, I guess because the student body that is enrolled is about the same size, I think, as the normal student body. What are the budgetary implications for you outside athletics on the campus itself? Show a great question, Jim. So we are. First of all, I think you won't know that very fortunate North Carolina. We are supported by our General General Assembly and the taxpayer dollars better than than just about any other state. There might be three or four other states that support higher education. Ah, at a higher rate than than what? We're supported out here in North Carolina, so we're very fortunate. They're different buckets of pots of money, if you will. There is our, uh, obviously tuition. So that's a big number in the neighborhood of probably $450 million.500 million dollars a year. There's state appropriation, which comes, you know, that's have probably another 532 105 $150 million. Uh, there's ah, obviously research expenditures were $1 billion ah, year research enterprise, and that is another big part of our budget. We have a great you know, UNC Healthcare system. So there's revenue that's generated there and every one of those, maybe, with the exception of research Enterprise, stands to take a hit with this pandemic, and we don't. Fortunately for this year, what we've heard is we're not gonna for this academic year likely going to take hopefully too big of, ah, budget cut from state appropriation and hopefully not with tuition because of we're trying our best to try to provide that opportunity for our students as many as we can, whether that's remote learning or some combination of remote and in person. But, uh, what we do know is that there are some students a spinner. We've pulled students, and some have said, Well, if it's gonna be an entirely remote learning environment that I'm gonna take a gap year. Oh, I'm gonna take, uh, a, um uh just take a year off for or enroll somewhere else. And so we've looked at that, and for every 10 to 15% about every 10% of students who don't choose not to enroll could be upwards of $50 million of of tuition revenue. So we're we're looking at that closely. We want toe again, provide flexibility for students that they can come back and learn and whatever format that they feel safest. But that revenue is is it's important. But we're not gonna put that above the health and safety of our students. Those that would choose to not live in a residence hall or dining halls. There's revenue. You know, there's issues there that can arise. So we're looking at all of this closely and working closely with the U. N C system and the Board of Governors on this to be sure that that we can remain financially healthy, but more important than that that our campus community remains physically and mentally healthy. Let me just add that because a lot of people are concerned about you know, the health risks of bringing people back to campus. I'll also I would add that there are a lot of health risks with the isolation of on entirely remote environment. Ah, teleworking, uh, just studying entirely remotely from home. Ah, lot of challenges. There's a lot of mental health issues with college age students these days, and we've heard from a lot of parents of students that at isolation is taking a toll on some of the mental health issues of college students. So we're trying to. There's a lot of competing factors assay. We're making these decisions moving forward. Long answer to your good question, Jim. Well, thank you. I think it would be excellent now if we we let some take field some questions from our from our guests. So, Jim, will you take us through those questions well, and there are lots of them. A doctor, Brian Stabler, starts by asking you chance to compare the quality of the learning experience online with the quality of the learning experience in the camp in the classroom. Sure. So let me just say that our faculty did an incredible job this past spring, pivoting from an entirely in person teaching environment to an entirely remote teaching environment in about 10 days. We made that decision around March 12th and we opened campus Backup. Remote only opened up campus, meaning we reopened the classroom through Zoom on the 23rd of March. So we that the this past spring on the higher education in general gotta pass. I'll just say that I talked to many other university chancellors and presidents because in most cases, 85% of those faculty had never really talked remotely before having done it now for half of a semester. And many of our faculty have taken advantage of trying to improve that their remote teaching over the summer, there been a lot of work shift workshops offered and, um, things of that nature throughout Centre for Faculty excellence. It's only going to get better. So, uh, you know the students are probably the better ones. Toe. Ask that question to answer that question, but our students responded in a very favorably toward the border of fact what he did for some classes. I mean, science labs. I mean, it's just very difficult to do remotely, and so they're working hard to try to improve that experience online. But we know that our students learn and grow best when they're here on campus in this in versus in person environment, where they have the benefit of their faculty and graduate students and and each other right by their side. But we have to do which safest and, uh, provide the flexibility for everyone. I'm thinking about all these demonstrations and you may remember, Chester, wind up, um, Rust Harden was speaking about Paul Harden, but he was the chancellor here. He said he started his first year with the, uh, with Jesse Helms telling him that, uh, that the university was a hotbed of communism and that he ended his term with Jesse Jackson, complaining about the issues of issues with the racial issues. I'm thinking you've got to get used to this life. So this week, Earl Giessen is just asked up. Uh, how you deal with the the question this week about whether we can say Tar Heels. Oh, I'm Kevin gusta wits, and I'm proud to be a target all. I'll just answer it that way. Just say, uh, Jim that, uh, you know, this isn't the first time that this questions, it is, uh, surfaced. But I do think that, you know, it's been looked at. It has never really written to the level that gets serious consideration for the removal of of that name. We are the Tar Heel state. Just had an earlier conversation with Jim Lewis about this today. And Jim, certainly as, ah, one of our incredible historians here. Ah, North Carolinian. Ah, and a scholar of North history, North Carolina. I think that there are many different interpretations of the target will name. And, um so I don't see it gaining much traction. A. So I stand here today, I could be wrong, but that's where I am today. On it. Steve Romney wants to know if, uh and he thought has been given to making the various behaviors that threaten to spread Kobe 19 and honor code violation. Probably not. We have talked extensively with student affairs, student government and members that oversee that. It just ah becomes a challenge, given the time that these takes for these cases toe to be worked through the system. So probably not. I think it's gonna b'more of just everybody stepping up and emphasizing the importance of it and almost embarrassing people into it. If they're not wearing a mask or practicing proper hygiene and social distancing, that's gonna be expected. It's an expectation. And we I'm proud of our students here, and I think that many people have gone into this with the assumption that they just won't follow the community standards once they're back. And I'm going to give our students the benefit of the doubt because I've been a faculty member here for 25 years. I think their group willing, I think they're going to accept the responsibility of stepping up to help, um, kind of build this new community, uh, standard for health here locally. So that's my hope. My goal. We have lots of questions about testing, and I think it may boiled down to Penny. Rich just wants to know generally, what's the program for for testing students? How often will they be tested and David Doors asking if it's feasible to test students either before as they arrive on campus or periodically during the fall? And then he also asked if it's not feasible to test everybody is the issue one of costs that is paid for the tests Or is it the limited the limited availability of the tests? Well, it's actually in again. We have had lengthy conversations with this with with our infectious disease and public health experts on this topic. And ah, they like the CDC. If you go to the seedy sees guidelines on returning students to college campuses in bold lettering, they clearly state that they do not recommend wide scale baseline reentry testing. And one of the reasons is that the it can produce a false sense of security because there is that period between, uh, you know, you could test negative on Tuesday and be positive on Thursday or Friday. There's, ah, incubation period. Uh, that exists there, create some challenges. And, um and it also has to do with supply chain. Right now, there is not, uh, the supply nest that would be needed to baseline test everyone. We've also looked at options where students might test before they come back and prove that they've tested negative aside, just said they could, uh, become positive. You know, merely after that we think we have a good testing program in place that's going Teoh test symptomatic patients with symptomatic students staff faculty that our affections disease, public health experts, things experts think will be the best way to contain the virus. If ah group is infected and the contact tracing works, we know that we've seen it work here on campus already so that those are the main reasons it's Ah, the supply chain has me a little worried right now because it was much we're being told 34 weeks ago. That would be about test probably upwards of 3000 people a day here locally. And, uh, because they've been diverting a lot of the supplies for testing to California, Arizona, Texas, Florida, that supply chain has become, uh, not scarce, but certainly know what we thought it would be. So what? So, yeah, so we have a lot of questions here about what happens when they stood a test positive. What kicks in are all the students in that person's living group quarantine and everyone in the same class? So if a student is tests positive, What what is that? Trigger? It immediately puts them into isolation, and the contact tracing is put into effect. And so the the I don't have all of the specifics of what we have. A credible team that's doing this. But those individuals that meet the criteria for having had day ah, contact in which could have allowed them to contract the virus from that individual they are tested, put into the program, tested and and it picks up those who are obviously positive. And then they themselves were isolated or foreign teams. So, uh, as I said, it's It's been working so far on our campus, with our research operations having ramped up beginning in early June, uh, here on campus and with our student athlete testing program as well. We've had a handful of questions about the capital cover a city schools approach to this and whether you given any thought to doing the same thing. Rob Maitland and Brian Swafford, I think, among some others have asked up that if the Chapel Hill Carver a city schools, they have gone to a system of virtual classrooms. For the first, I think it's six weeks or maybe 1st 9 weeks of the sign with nine weeks of the school year was unc, did you participate it or you consulted that? Was there any any consultation between systems about that No, we weren't involved in that decision. We've been working closely with the Orange County Health Department with the governor's office and working with both local and state health officials on this. And I know that the school superintendents were doing the same. Uh, and so we. Certainly This is a factor we're gonna have toe put in place years. We look at how we would bring faculty staff back to campus and graduate students who may have Children in the Chapel Hill or surrounding school District's That's certainly going toe. Create some additional challenges with parents of Children needing toe toe likely be at home, working with their Children with with home schooling. So we have meetings still yet to come today on this topic and were, as I said, this is not easy and there's no playbook for it. But we're gonna get to a place where we provide as much flexibility for our employees on for our students so that we can hopefully get through this. I'm just hopeful that by this time next year, we're, uh, what we're planning for a normal fall semester of Carolina. So, Chancellor, if the president is supposed to have to worry about Congress every day. Every chancellor has to worry about the faculty. And so, um, the fact, Lee, they're adults. Lots of those faculty people fall into the the into the demography of those who are. Who would worry the most about Kobe? 19. Um, how comfortable do you feel your faculty as a group is about the truth. They plan to draw. Sure. Um, e think it's across the board. Jim, Jim, I have Ah, I heard from a faculty member two weeks ago. He said, I've been at this a long time and he he's jokingly I think said I'd rather die of Covad 19 standing in front of my classroom, teaching in person, then die at home trying to figure out how to teach remotely when I know that I'm not very good at it. And, uh, I, um, you know, that's obviously an extreme, and I think he was, I hope, partially joking. But ah, there's a lot of factors were concerned about it, and from the very beginning we have worked hard to try to respect the, um, the you know, the feelings of those. I mean, some of faculty fall into the category where we want them teaching remotely because they either fall into an H category where they're at risk or they may have some pre existing condition. Ah, they may be caring for apparent. That is, uh, immuno suppressed or something. And so we want them to work remotely this ball and, uh, and there are others that they're gonna fight that the, You know, if we were to have to turn entirely remote, they're gonna push back because they think they do their best work right here on campus. And you know they want to be here. So we're trying to provide the options to them to meet all the very meets. But there certainly are a lot of concerned faculty. We have a question from the community. Leon Scroggins says, Hi, this is Leon Scroggins class of 05 he says. I played football with Brian. Jake owes, So there's a shot up for Brian. He says, I love the university. I live and work close by speaking for myself, I'm worried about the risk of bringing students from all over back to the campus. I do not expect they will follow safety recommendations. I already see lots of young people gathering on campus without distance or masks. Already, you mentioned trying to beat the second wave, but my understanding is that the first way this ongoing I understand there are competing interests, but I really do worry about are sacrificing safety way. Have said from the very beginning that health and safety of the campus community was the first and foremost does is we're planning. And so we're gonna have a significantly, um, reduced population of students on our campus, Asai said, We're tied. A new word. I mean, the word D dance. If I had never used in my life up until about eight weeks ago, and we've been working to figure out how we d identify the campus. I mean, we're talking about just the way we move students in and out of buildings. We're gonna have tents were preparing toe to start putting tents up one campus where we're gonna do identify the, uh, dining halls on and outdoor spaces is, uh, safer than indoor space. So we're gonna probably be in teaching some classes in these tents and eso. We're doing everything we can to take those individuals who feel they can come back here and again. I want to go back to something I said earlier. Uh, there are some students here at Carolina who, uh they need to be here on campus. They don't have the ability because of their home situation to study remotely. We still had 850 students What most people don't know. Even in the spring that second half of the spring semester. Uh, from from about March the 12th through May 10th we still had 850 students living in our residents halls, residential holes, probably more than most other universities. And that's because thes were international students. Students with hardships. Uh, they don't have Internet sound Internet service for where they live. And so we have experienced with this, and we again had all the proper measures in place back then. And we know a lot more about it now than we did then to put the protections in place. And we are talking about bringing a lot more back than 852 live in residential halls right now as we stand here, sit here today. Uh, that could change over the next a few days, few weeks and So, as I've said from the beginning way, understand there are concerns were taking it seriously. And, uh uh, if we may be taking an off ramp, it's important. So we're down in the lightning round. But I just got I think Matthew Arnold's asked a really good a question that I'm going to elaborate on for just a moment when you're making decisions like this, you want to be America's may be the world's leading public university. That that suggests being out front, innovating, doing things for the first time or better than anybody else. At the same time, you're doing best practices. Um, it Matt said, Do you see any way an opportunity for Carolina to stand out to somehow demonstrate leadership it, doing it, doing something bigger, better, more clever or creative, more enlightened than anybody else? Yeah, good question, Matt. I'll just say that Ah, again, several weeks ago, I remember to being on a zoom call like this with a group, and I said, We're in a race to be right, not a race to be first and and I meant that. And we, uh, unlike most other legal public research universities were surrounded by these infectious disease and public health experts that are helping to guide the CDC and the World Health Organization and others. And they have told us as early as as recently as this morning on our 8 30 to 9 30 calls, I I asked, Should we be taking an off ramp right now? Today? And, you know, we walked through that and talk through this and again, um, many of them feel that we have. This is the safest place for for some of those students to be. We talked a lot about the D identification, how we do that. We're working on that. And so no, I don't I'm not trying. Toe put Carolina out there to be, um, leading in a cavalier way what we're leading in an informed way with some of the best people in the world guiding our decision making. Ah, And again, those decisions may be changing here over the next week. Six weeks, eight weeks. But we're gonna We're gonna get it right. Just rub were Have about two minutes and, uh uh huh. Because you live here, your constituency of the state of North Carolina. Your boundary is the state boundary. you're a neighbor, so we know you your life. But like to ask you how you cope with this personally, Because it's, uh, I was talking to Cecilia Moore, university historian, who said, we have probably not had a chancellor who certainly not or or University CEO who in his first year on the job. Ah, has, um it is fasting, the kinds of Palin's just that you have. And I'm thinking about your life before this in your life, how you know you you are an international acclaim for your groundbreaking work in, uh, in concussion research. Your mild temperament has generally made you a popular figure, and you are a conciliatory. You have conciliatory temperament at a time that you're facing irreconcilable issues. You've got 3.5 $1,000,000 budget, 13,000 employees, 29,000 students, a community that depends on you. The students all wore on education. They all want to be safe. You've got racial issues that always royal campuses. We've got the name changing issue, and whatever you do about football is going to be controversial. And so when you look at all of those conflicts, ding pressures where there the seemingly irreconcilable forces that you have to know is going to result in a very large number of stakeholders being critical of you. And I'm happy with how you do this at the same time that you're trying to form a consensus. How do you process all that? Sure. See the gray hair. Jim, I didn't have all that year ago. No, let me also just add that I I I'm the father, a father of two students here in Carolina. And, uh and so I've been told that I'm that I may be the first since, ah, chance for sitters. And I think that's been quite a few. I think he was here the year I was born, but I I think, uh, about this through different lenses. I have I think I have the benefit of viewing these issues through different lenses and ah, and bring something unique to the to the job. I love this job. I love this great university have been here 25 years, and, uh, I knew that it wasn't gonna be an easy job. And you have to have thick skin. You have to recognize that you're not gonna make everyone, um, happy I wrote a piece. Ah, blogged about a year ago, year and 1/2 ago, right as I was finishing up, was dean of the college and about to step into my role is interim chancellor on it was called The Art and Science of Leadership, and I talked about the way I make decisions as a dean or a chance for now being very similar, the way in which I conduct my research that you mentioned as a a neuroscientist, and it's very hypothesis driven. It's putting a methodology in place toe answer a n'importe question, and you take the you run up. You go through that process there in a very methodical approach, you gather as much evidence and data as you can, and then you have to make a decision. You have to know when you think you have enough information to make that decision and go at it, knowing that you're a not gonna make everybody happy and be that that there's risk in it, potentially being the wrong decision. But I think when you sit around, you wait too long. Ah, there's a lot of risk in that as well, and yet you have to be decisive. And so again, I love the job. But there are a lot of constituencies. As you've said, I'm proud of leadership team that we have here at Carolina and, ah, proud of the of the road map that we have for this fall. And it, uh, it very well may be changing what we build it in such a way that that we're taking the best available data at this point in time and trying to create the most opportunities that we could be that leading global public research university that we aspire to be, but to be doing it in a safe way on. But again, I really appreciate the opportunity to be with you all today. I have toe dump into another meeting. Yes. Gentlemen, this concludes the time we have together today, and we have certainly learned a lot on behalf of the club and our guests from the computer and guilt way. We just thank everyone for attending today and wish everyone a good job. Thank you.