What could come next for McDougald Terrace in Durham

And again I as I said last night in our

in our board meeting I implore that you in the

media be much more responsible in how you report information

and be reflective of how it's going to impact the

lives of our residents

Residents were concerned upset because they heard that they had

to move by the end of the year

There was nothing that I stated yesterday in our board

meeting that indicated anybody had to move at the end

of the year

So again I'm asking the media to be more responsible

and respective of our residents and what you say and

how it impacts them

So with that said I want to talk a little

bit about our recovery agreement what it's about and why

it's necessary

So in 2018 D

H

A was designated that fiscal year as a troubled agency

And this is something that was covered in the media

back then when it came out in 2020

So the way it works is good will conduct inspections

of our properties and plus look at other metrics and

based on that usually the next year they will then

give us a rating of the previous year

So we received our Troubled Agency designation in the spring

actually I think it was February of 2020 for fiscal

year 2018 but has not conducted any assessments of the

DHS or any public housing authority since then because of

the pandemic But whenever a housing authority is deemed a

troubled performer as Dhs currently is based on 2018 then

hud will have to negotiate a recovery agreement with that

housing Authority recovery agreement basically says this is what hud

expects us to do to correct those deficiencies and this

is the time frame in which you need to do

that

So after months of negotiation with hugs starting to bleed

back in october we finally were able to execute a

recovery agreement On February 15 of this year

Last week There are three primary objectives in that recovery

agreement

One We have to achieve a 95% occupancy portfolio wide

Two we have to improve our unit conditions based on

the typical scoring that he does and you guys have

information on that and three they want us to reposition

McDougall terrorist community

Bye

At the end of two years Not one but at

the end of two years that's what it says

But the facts are this over the next year we

had to provide a plan of how we would reposition

McDougald Terrace based on that plan and hades approval of

that plan

We will then enact that

Playing around how we will reposition McDougald Terrace

Now Hudis goal is two years

I don't see how that's really possible

We've expressed that they had already but we have a

process in which we submit a plan and then at

the end of that approval period it will lay out

the full time frame for what we will do at

McDougall and how long it will take

So that's the process that we're going through

We intended to be able to communicate this with our

residents

It will be an inclusive process over this next year

We will be inviting our residents in just like we

always have whenever we're doing repositioning of our properties we

invite our residents in to be a part of that

discussion

They're also be relocation that will be involved depending on

what we do

We do renovation of the property

We still have to relocate people if we're going to

tear down our property we still have to relocate people

You have to have a relocation plan

There are federal standards to what a relocation process is

We will follow those

Hopefully we will exceed those

But it includes making sure that residents are provided all

the resources they need to relocate including things like security

positive utilities all those things

That's a part of the process

We will then begin the process of our development of

whatever it's going to be with MacDougal and we'll make

that determination within a year pending approval from hud

So with that I will open it up to any

questions that you all might have

All right okay

About what it is time of year

Awesome

First of all I didn't say hud said that we

had to vacate the property had said that we have

to reposition their property

That could mean they want it to be out of

the public housing program

So one of the options is that we could renovate

that property under the rad program and and it would

still be McDougald Terrace so that's to be determined over

the next year

You know what I mean by I don't know that

all that's possible in a year because if we're gonna

renovate McDougall terrorists it's going to take a while to

do that with our residents in place

Or even if we have to move residents you know

it doesn't make sense to move everybody at once

You might do that in stages

Right So that's on one end of the spectrum

The other end of the spectrum would be that we

completely tear down McDougald Terrace and then we have to

do relocation of everyone

So those are all processes that takes time

The number one priority is how do we address the

needs of our residents

So we have to take a relocation plan and put

that in process and it may take more than that

designated time frame that has in the agreement right Rad

stands for rental assistance demonstration it's a 10 year old

program that hud implemented

It allows housing authorities to public housing cannot use bank

financing it can't be leaned etcetera

If you convert under the rad program you can then

use the financing tools that others use when they do

renovation work

So that's what the rad program is all about and

you can look at the hood website it's got a

whole very simplistic overview of how the program works

We're already engaged in rad now we've done probably five

conversions of full properties

The work that we're doing in the downtown area is

all based on the rad program

So that's a program that we're very familiar with and

we utilize all the time

Okay for here are here

Mhm

For the day before th a so what I can

guarantee is that we will provide a plan to hud

in the next year the next year Within a year

So in other words February 2023 we have to provide

a plan for what we're going to do with McDougald

Terrace too hard but then has to approve that plan

and based on what we determine over this next year

of planning work which we will be doing in conjunction

with our residents that will determine what the timeline looks

like

So I can't tell you what that what that is

in the agreement hud is saying you submit the plan

of the year and at the end of the following

year in other words two years from now you have

to uh move MacDougal tears out of the public housing

inventory and as as I said to this gentleman that

doesn't necessarily mean that Mcdougal has to get torn down

but we will no longer be using as public housing

it could be converted to read like some of our

other properties have been done

So all of that is to be determined

So the idea of time frames and all that beyond

this year we don't really have one and that's what

we have to work on over the next year

And again in conjunction with our residents and will bring

on a development partner of some sort

All that will happen in this next year

Thank you the time frame here

Mhm

Correct

Well as I said we have to relocate residents for

anything that we do Right now

We have 301 residents at McDougald Terrace 807 people

So How we relocate 807 people 300 families in a

year's time

I'm not sure that we can accomplish that could be

possible but I'm not sure that we can accomplish that

Is there a place Yes what we're looking

So there are a variety of options of what relocating

can look like

One we can move folks to our existing public housing

communities

two they could get housing choice vouchers or we might

be able to do something in the private sector

So again lots of options but we don't have concrete

answers at this time

If you look at for example when we did the

renovation of Maureen Road we ended up vacating half the

site

So residents some would relocate to other public housing communities

We did the renovation work and then we moved them

to the other half of the site that was renovated

and did renovation work on the other half

That's an example of what I mean by I don't

know that it's possible to get all that done in

a year's time because of the approach that you take

in these various things or it could be you're going

to just clear out the entire property and then tear

down and rebuild

But again we have to relocate those families somewhere so

we have to make sure we can find a place

for them to go

The housing choice voucher is not a panacea

We have about 200 families that are looking for housing

Now in our regular housing choice voucher program so we

don't have a huge sort of interest in accepting housing

choice vouchers in Durham by the landlords because it's through

the private sector that you you absorb those housing choice

vouchers

So if we got 200 families now that have been

looking it's been consistently that over the over the last

year you add another 300 to that mix

That's 500 families now that are trying to find housing

How difficult it is that in a town like dorm

where we're seeing tremendous increases in rents and landlords having

lots of options about what and how and who they

choose to rent to and how feasible do you think

the D

A

Was actually in front of the I don't know I'm

not speculating until we go through the process

Yeah

Networks

Mhm

Would you say that Okay

No thank you

No

You asked me is it likely that none will be

moved And I don't know the answer to that because

we have to develop a plan that might that might

include residents moving before then

So you have correct Yeah

We don't know that until we have a plan that

designates what we're going to do and how we're going

to do it hud has asked us to have McDougald

terrace repositioned By the end of 2024 2024

Thank you

Oh before no

Hey I asked you to get a more direct way

Mm hmm

Mhm

Probably people

So as clear as I can state it

I don't know because we have to develop a plan

That plan might come up with a way in which

some residents want to move sooner

So I can't answer that question because we don't have

a solid plan

Let's have this conversation a year from now

Once we submitted our plan to hud hud has approved

it and then we can determine what's going to happen

But at this point there are too many variables and

too many options to say for sure by this date

X number of people are all or some or one

is going to move

It's impossible to tell you that now as far as

we are see our end of right now There are

we're at 94% right now overall

So 94 correct

Mhm

I don't know

I know MacDougal is one of them because there's 301

occupied residences And we have 346 units

So they're about 87%

But I don't know that

I can certainly get you that information

Thank you

Sorry

I thank you

Gentlemen

Have a question

What Mm hmm

Have those fears

those people that were with Right Right

And and that was an error on our part that

should not have known

I was part of our efforts to get our occupancy

up but we do what should have been excluded from

that given what we're doing here

Right No that doesn't know

We're not going to accept any new residents at McDougall

at this time while we go through this planning process

until we determine what we do

Because whatever we do we know we're gonna have some

level of relocation

So we're not looking to bring new folks in knowing

that they might have to move in a year or

two or three or whatever that was the last time

30 seconds

Right

Reports were really loud

Yeah

Yes condition

We expected that

Hi right

Follow up the work that's been going on And you

are

Sure one thing to keep in mind that those scores

were done prior to our emergency of McDougald terrace back

in 2020

There was approximately $4 million dollars spent on doing repairs

to McDougald Terrace

Since then we've spent another $2 million dollars in doing

repairs at McDougald Terrace

So the conditions that existed back in 2020 2020 are

very different than now

We spent you know millions of dollars literally in trying

to improve McDougall terrorists and only McDougall are other properties

as well

Yeah mm hmm

Probably that's the hope I know for sure they will

come up at McDougall based on the work that we've

done and some of the others in which we've been

able to put resources into

Um we all often as you guys hear me talk

about I know people think it's an excuse but we

were always having the battle of where are the resources

that we have to do the work the way we

need to do it

And not to mention the fact that we've had a

terrible time at getting and filling our positions that are

vacant and a lot of that is in a property

management arena

Over the last several months we've been backfilling that with

temporary help

But it's been a struggle

I think now everybody understands this concept of how difficult

it is to find good quality residents

I mean good quality employees but we were dealing with

that long before the pandemic with the pandemic has only

exacerbated that issue

We've been able to do backfilling with temporary positions

That has helped a great deal

We've also brought in some new staff that has really

helped out quite a bit

And so we think that with the work that's happened

over the last several years we certainly will see improvements

in our scoring whenever we have the next react inspections

You don't know Hud Hud will call you and you

have basically 30 days and what's to be prepared for

that

Typically it would be in the spring but because of

pandemic and they're just starting to do inspections again they

did an announcement a couple of weeks ago that they

are going to start inspections again

Um I think it'll be some time at or after

june of this year

Crystal you know Yeah

Uh No

Um what we have to do is something called a

physical needs assessment And it's a formal process that hud

requires we have had our all of our properties inspected

but we have not received back our reports yet

So once that comes back you know these are you

know licensed inspectors who go in and look at uh

sampling of the units

We've told them the issues that we're aware of

But then they go and do their own independent inspection

and then based on that they'll do a cost analysis

of what it will take to do the repairs as

well as obviously identifying the repairs that have to be

done

Is it likely that paris will be torn It's just

as likely it'll be torn down as it won't

Again a plan has to be done

so we can make that assessment

What you just asked is actually a part of that

assessment

What will it cost to try to renovate Middle Terrace

vs

Does it make more sense to tear it down and

rebuild So that's all a real in depth analysis and

efforts that has to happen before we can make that

true determination

I just want to make sure ready

Yeah

And not creating all of

Okay

No

That's correct

That's correct

So it is all when we do it's called the

Fads of Public Housing Assessment System

Uh It's all of our properties right

Each individual property has a separate inspection that's done

But then it's all sort of a weighted average that

goes into coming up with your overall score will be

different

The outcome

Would you say that people here No

No it was not

It was a part of McDougald Terrace was I think

at that time approximately 25% of our overall score

And he started out you were very concerned

I was more than concerned

I was quite upset and angry because I'm in the

middle of a board meeting

I'm getting text messages from residents and how upset they

are but I have some residents here they're gonna tell

you themselves

Um But I'm sorry I cut you off before you

finish policy

Mhm

So we're gonna be meeting with our residents to talk

to them about what this process will be the message

is what we just shared with you that over the

next year we're gonna do a planning process to look

at how we're gonna reposition with terrorists

And that will include our residents that will include you

know professionals who will come in and who are experienced

and how you look at these things as as Crystal

asked we're also going to be doing an analysis of

the inspections that are being done to determine what the

needs are of their property

And based on all of those factors we will come

up with a viable plan as to how we're going

to deal with McDougald Terrace that

complex they follow them around

You got any options Yeah possibility right Can be taken

away

Okay

My Republic

Absolutely not

The one thing that we've been very clear about is

that we are not going to sell our land all

the all the deals that we've been doing all the

bad things we've been doing

We've been partners with those developers and we you have

to remember that no public housing under the red program

you cannot tear down a unit without replacing it

So we have to replace each and every one of

those units

So even if it's kind of the scenario we're throwing

out there we said okay we're gonna get rid of

the MacDougal terrorists and we don't build any other housing

there which wouldn't happen

But just as an example we still have to build

it somewhere else somewhere else

We have to replace those units and if you recall

or you may not recall but look up where downtown

and and neighborhood plan We had a dotted line in

the downtown area for those 447 units that existed

And we said we're not going to build or replace

those units outside of that area because we wanted to

make sure that the folks that are in downtown could

enjoy the fruits of this expanding downtown

Even though we have some units that are not going

to be put back on the same site we have

21 units at Willard Street

We have some units that are going to be located

across the street over here

We have some units are gonna be located across the

street over there

So there are ways of replacing those units

It doesn't have to be on that same site

That may be a part of the option but we

will certainly not tear down and not replace those units

Mhm

That's actually written into the Red law

They do have a priority

So that's something that is intact

When you go to a rad conversion all the existing

residents have priority to come back to any new public

housing units that are rebuilt

Mhm

I'd like to ask Ashley who is the president of

the McDougald Terrace Residents Association and also uh Anthony McClendon

who's who's part of the border at least he's a

finish strong leader to come up and say a few

words because what I started out talking about I think

they'd like to share a little bit about that from

an actual resident perspective

MS Kennedy

I'll let you go first and follow Anthony

Um I don't know if it's more than the afternoon

but hello everyone I'm Ashleigh Kennedy A

S

H

L

E

Y

C A N A D

Y

And I'm the president from McDougald Terrace

Um I kind of can piggyback off of mr scott

Um I was actually in the doctor's office yesterday with

my daughter when my phone started blowing up

I couldn't figure out what was going on

The first thing I thought of was something tragic had

happened in McDougald Terrace for my phone to be blowing

up and to see the headline in here and people

asking me so many questions if I was blindsided yesterday

Um I wasn't aware of anything that was going on

until some reporters called me

Residents are calling me sending me um clips and stuff

like that

And I always say this and a lot of the

reporters know when we import stuff about Mactaggart terrorists

We have to make sure we have correct information before

it's put out because when articles come out a lot

of people don't think that residents are paying attention and

a lot of times they are

And D

H

A

Closes after a certain time

Dhe closes at five o'clock and once dhe closes that

means Ashley phones blows up because I'm actually active in

the community

So that means Ashley phone blows up

Ashley's outside hours

Ashley's getting knocks and stuff on her door

I don't mind

But what I don't I understand and I don't like

is when residents come and ask me questions and I

don't have answers it builds um it makes them feel

that there's a distrust it makes them feel that I

have things to hide and I didn't have anything to

hide because I couldn't answer any questions because I didn't

know what anybody was talking about

Um I just want to apologize to my community for

not having the answers for them Um I didn't make

a promise to them when I left here today that

I would um come and speak to them and give

them the information to the best of my knowledge

I'm still kind of angry right now because um nobody

knows what it's like to live in a community that

deals with so many things on a daily basis

And when you have families already struggling to make ends

meet then they see something like this and you have

to be gone by the end of the year which

was not a true statement

That's right around the holiday time

Can you imagine the hurt and the pain that people

feel as soon as I walked in the house from

a doctor support my daughter's like ma we about to

be homeless I'm like what are you talking about like

because that's how fast it spread

My mom lives in florida and she's calling me from

florida Ashley

If you have to come home come home and I

just want to let my residents know as the President

of McDougald Terrace from this day forward with this process

I will make sure that I'm in constant communication with

Durham Housing Authority and Mr scott and any information that

I feel is vital to my community

I make a vow to bring that back to your

community

If I don't have the information I'm gonna tell you

I don't have it

But um I have reached out to Mr scott and

spoke to Mr scott and we are in the process

of um getting a meeting in place so hopefully this

um settles a lot of the residents and I just

asked from here on out can we have a better

understanding and before we report something make sure it's definite

information because we know what happens when information is misconstrued

and then when information gets misconstrued you can put a

new article out there and it doesn't it doesn't change

it

Like I've experienced it from the resident council office being

broken into

But the heading that was put up there made it

look like I was the person that broke into the

resident council office all by a mist typo in the

article and you can imagine the embarrassment that I went

through and then even when the correct the article came

out there the damage was already done

So right now the damage is already done is how

do we rectify it from here How do we bring

peace from here And how do we make residents feel

a little bit better So um go ahead

Yeah if you're in the planet's entire leaving it's fine

line involved here

What do you want Um Everything is a process everything

is a process

I'm hopefully can get more um paperwork and stuff so

we can get it out to the residents so the

residents can understand it more because a lot of them

don't have the communication like right now a lot of

them don't have access to telephones and stuff like this

A lot of them might can't read

So um I'm just gonna make sure that all avenues

is um approach so we can make sure the residents

actually understand what is actually going on

Did you go for it yesterday Have you heard it

all I haven't heard anything about it

We've talked about a five year plan and like I

said when I saw the heading I was blindsided I

even told some of the news reporters when they were

asking me I'm like what are you talking about I

don't know what you're talking about because I was shocked

I'm like hold on what are you talking about And

then it's like when the residents are calling me and

all I can say is I don't know

And then it becomes a trust issue with the residents

especially with me being a leader leadership in McDougall

All right comedians

I do

But you know things happen

Hopefully from here we can have better communication

Um you know I have things that I'm dealing with

you know on a daily basis

So hopefully from here we'll have that relationship

I just want you know when the media and other

people are reporting a story make sure people that are

in charge know and people who are representing community know

what's going on before it's put out there so they

can already prepare themselves for what's to come after the

messages sent out there

Mm hmm

Okay

Bye

Okay

How does that make I've been in I'm gonna be

really transparent

I've been on MacDougal for a long time and I've

told a lot of the residents this is the time

has come

And this is just gonna give me the more ammo

to get myself together more and do what I have

to do to make sure my family is covered

But I promise not to leave the Magnolia Terrace residents

alone

I'm gonna stay in the fight with them

But when my time comes my time is gonna come

Ah no problem

Too long

Let me stop

Um I actually moved officially in McDougald Terrace in 2009

like Mm hmm

And yeah

Yeah

Um well the current monoxide

Um that was an experience for me

You know you have to leave the community

Um it was very stressful

You know running the command center running back and forth

When I started the thing I was weighing like 1

45 by the time all it was over with and

all the stress

I came in at £102 and I'm still barely moving

But um I shared a lot of tears

Um I held a lot of families so hopefully we

don't have to go through that process again if you

want to see how wait I heard

Okay

I would hope that McDougald Terrace can be re renovated

because a lot of people don't know

McDougald Terrace has a lot of history with it being

there so long

Um we have reunions

Um we have Rodney Rogers

We have so many great people that have come from

McDougall and MacDougal is pretty much a landmark

So if we can keep at least some of it

but renovated it would be it would mean a lot

Yes

Mhm

Anthony McClendon M C L E N dealing

Um picking back off some of the actually said about

the meeting

Mm hmm y'all need to stop rushing out before the

meeting

The meeting is over with and get the facts before

you pitted area because you send panic in the neighborhood

real quick

I couldn't even get out of my car quick enough

and I had people ask me what's going on

I got my phone ringing

I had to relate to her and said how long

y'all gotta wait until I talk to ask

You know I had to tell the news meeting

I gotta get without president

I'm the treasurer and matt I stand on the board

with asking and we have been through it a lot

and you know Miss Scott when he came in with

the carbon monoxide he was hit in the head because

he had just got the job

He didn't know this was gonna happen

So y'all need to make sure y'all come with the

facts because our families over there we care about we

have to make sure they get the information that when

we get it we can get it done when y'all

give it I'll tear it up and it's not right

More new families have moved and the building complex I

stayed in I stayed in and they I mean they

were like we just got here and we gotta move

already

So hold on I've got to reach out to Mr

Scott told him dude with me today I got I

got a call I had to call him out on

the news but I don't like doing that

But you know if I ain't got the information I

can't give nobody else information

Yes it's a five year plan format dignitaries which we

all know that so we can't rush into things like

Mr scott said it is a process

I mean they just can't come in and say y'all

gotta go there's a process we know this and we

knew it we know that it's coming so therefore it's

time for us to start getting paid

You know if they come with me to a voucher

with a voucher and it's gonna help me out financially

Yes I take but you know I like not doing

to it

I mean when I came from Jersey I stayed in

that door too

They came from Williamsburg north Carolina

My she stayed in and um cornwallis she was in

the first apartment in I had another aunt she was

the second person to move in matt

So when I came from Jersey in the summer that's

where I spent my time at in the project you

know and like he said they're not gonna sell the

man because they had to be rebuilt on you know

which they still got to rebuild on every street

They haven't gotten to that yet but they're gonna have

to get to it sooner or later

They're gonna have to do Lincoln apartments and this is

their time to go ahead on and do what they

need to do you know let's be for real y'all

I get out person but y'all need to make sure

y'all had the facts

Don't be in a meeting with the H

J

And then you leave before the meeting is over and

you know what's going on Because it's not right to

him

It's not right to the people that works here and

it's not right to our community because I see a

lot of it all the time

You know I have even have an organization called Taking

back the streets y'all put out stuff before y'all even

get the facts

Y'all don't come talk to the people

Normally we get the facts before y'all get the facts

And if the family says all right for us to

put it out we can put it out

But can y'all please stop doing what you're doing Because

sending them pack

I mean like I told him we gotta wait for

Ashley

Ashley got to wait with them when she um getting

with me

And we set up a meeting format Doobie

So we can explain to the residents that statement was

not true that the media picked out

And also not this time with y'all but y'all do

interview make sure you do the whole interview or depression

that you're interviewing because y'all don't do that

Some of y'all do some of you don't but you

don't do the whole interview and it'll be bits and

pieces on the news y'all get in there

What y'all want y'all thank y'all want people to hear

but they did hit a hole the whole story from

the person not half of the story not just a

little small piece

so we gotta give th a a chance to do

They plan like Mr scott said which I know he's

gonna keep us in the loop just like the carbon

monoxide

When that happened he kept us in the loop he

made sure he set up meetings for us when this

pandemic came he found a way to make sure he

communicated with our neighborhood and with our residence that actually

didn't know what was going on

I knew what was going on

Me and her we made sure we stayed in touch

with someone going right we had to stop for a

minute and think about it and get it together to

make sure everything ran smoothly

But they you know like he said it's a plan

they gotta come up with a plan they gotta send

it the hood hood then they won't go back and

forth and then once they approve it then they got

to start making decisions what they're gonna do

You know when that I used to stay in Mac

Dude it was my kids they were like three years

old we moved out I think there was like five

we stayed away for about seven years

I got another about you to move back into McDougall

so now I've been there it will be going on

eight years in september do you have a preference Which

demolishes what Well like no that's meant part of my

life in that dude um with my cousins and my

aunts and friends

Um It's not a bad place to live

I wish they could go in and remodel like they

did up in more than road

Mhm

But if they can't and they can feel something for

us to go to and then tear it down and

give us the opportunity to come back you know that

would be great

But no you know don't leave the office down there

and tear down on but that's not really a landmark

you know like they did felt the street you know

they just I had to go I got to break

out of my house right now from the street you

know and the more questions I hope I ain't make

nobody mad because I got on the media but I

take the spell

So one thing I just I just want to emphasize

one other thing in in this process here

Um whenever we've done any redevelopment work we've always started

first and foremost with our residents

So we just completed this arduous process of negotiating that

recovery agreement with Hood and so our next steps were

to sit down with our residents the leadership and say

look guys this is where we are this is what

we have to do

We didn't have that opportunity with this

Um So I know that was kind of implication in

your question about why did we no sooner um that

there are three things in that recovery agreement do a

test is one of them

And so there's a lot that we were working on

with hud to negotiate back and forth

And so our next step was to sit down with

our residents and talk about what this process would be

And that's why our residents weren't aware of this before

you guys put it out there because we hadn't gotten

to that stage yet

Any other questions

All right

Thank you guys

Thanks

Basically

If you can just whatever you just did you just

put on that

If you don't take care of the rest it might

take awhile

Right

Is there any way to break it into I would

like to have Anthony and Ashley Kennedy has helped for

the first two people that spoke

Is there any way to get them on latitude first

Mhm

Going to let you No

Mhm