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‘Younger’ Finale: Sutton Foster and Darren Star on Last Twist

This interview includes spoilers for the Season 5 finale of “Younger.”

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By
Kathryn Shattuck
, New York Times
This interview includes spoilers for the Season 5 finale of “Younger.”

Team Charles has emerged triumphant. For now.

Fans of TV Land’s “Younger” who waited seemingly forever for Liza (Sutton Foster) — a 40-ish divorcée navigating the publishing industry as a pretend 20-something — and her boss, Charles (Peter Hermann), to make their relationship official were rewarded in Tuesday night’s show.

But just moments later — after Charles resigned as publisher of Empirical to ethically date his subordinate Liza, and the new couple gazed adoringly into each other’s eyes — their elation deflated as their smiles faded. And so did ours.

“That final walk with Charles and Liza from ‘Oh, everything’s going to be OK’ to ‘Wait a minute,'” Foster said. “This is from fantasy to reality in a matter of seconds.”

Leaving viewers to wonder whether the couple would still love each other tomorrow, or at least next season.

In a joint phone interview, Foster and Darren Star, the show’s creator, discussed Liza and Charles’ long-awaited romance, some unexpected ramifications of the #MeToo movement, the love affair between the show’s female characters and the shifting power dynamics ahead.

These are edited excerpts from the conversation.

This season was agonizing with the on-again, off-again dynamic between Liza and Charles, and now we’re left to ponder their uneasy expressions. Should we be worried?
Sutton Foster: Charles and Liza fall in love, but it’s all been under the umbrella of this fantasy. Charles has made a huge sacrifice to be with Liza, but at what cost? He says, “I’m happy,” and she goes, “Then so am I.” And they kiss, they hold each other’s hand, they walk away into their future. But then, in that moment, it’s like, “Oh [expletive], what the hell have we done?” It’s the doubt, it’s the reality. It’s the wait a minute — now what?

Darren Star: The dynamic has changed dramatically and as much as they do want to be together, there’s a lot more complications involved than they imagined. They’re going to be in some ways on opposing paths going forward. And it also is about what any relationship is like when the infatuation grows into reality. This was a very heightened version of that.

The #MeToo movement took shape between Seasons 4 and 5. How did that affect the series?

Star: We look at our world like it’s the real world, and we looked retrospectively at who our characters were and how they behaved, and also at how we as writers perceived their actions. And in the light of the #MeToo movement, we re-examined what ramifications they would have in the world of “Younger.” It adjusted our storytelling in a way that created more drama and conflict.

I definitely feel like a reporting relationship between someone who runs a company and a woman who certainly is perceived as younger, but in any case works for him, has a new set of complications. It’s not as simple as when the series began. Certainly [the author character] L.L. Moore was quite egregious in terms of his behavior, and we addressed that. And then with Charles and Liza, the audience loves the idea of this romance. But when you really think about the nuts and bolts of this boss-employee relationship, you start to wonder how appropriate it is.

Despite the men in Liza’s life, her relationship with Kelsey feels like a love story.

Star: As writers, we think in some ways of Liza and Kelsey [Hilary Duff] as the primary relationship of the show.

Foster: It is a love story. Liza thinks of Kelsey as a friend, as a sister, but as a daughter in many ways, too. She wants to take care of her but also knows that she has to obviously make her own mistakes. The female friendships are the real heart of the show and what make it so great.

Will their friendship survive now that Kelsey has replaced Charles as publisher?

Star: It’s an interesting story to see somebody that young take on that much responsibility and what the pressure does to them. I think she’s going to really need Liza, and I’m curious to see how Liza’s relationship with Charles, who’s going to probably want to have a lot of input into his company, is going to clash with what Kelsey wants to do. I mean, Liza’s sleeping with the enemy a little bit next season, as far as Kelsey is concerned.

Foster: Oh, wow. That’ll be just fascinating. The power dynamics have shifted. You’ve got Kelsey in charge, and Liza’s up there with her. Charles is on the outside. And if Charles and Liza are still together, how will that affect her relationship with Kelsey and the running of the company? Arghh!

Liza doesn’t seem quite so young anymore, but in a strong, alluring way.

Foster: This is my favorite season by far because Liza grew up, as ironic as that sounds. She really started to own her power.

Star: One thing we love to do on this show as writers is paint ourselves and our characters into a corner. And then think about how we get ourselves out of that. I don’t think Charles is in any way, shape or form ready to retire or give up his company. And Liza is certainly going to be a really strong person in his company, so there will be some interesting conflict there. Liza is ambitious and she did all this for a reason, and even though it wasn’t completely premeditated, her ambition has taken her to a pretty high place. And it’s interesting that she does find herself almost running the company she basically came in as an assistant to in this sort of slightly underhanded way. And she’s got the man she wants. So she’s really got a lot. [Laughs]

Let’s not forget Josh, forever pining for Liza, now that Clare is back on the scene.

Star: We had this long-game idea about Clare [Phoebe Dynevor], that she’d be gone and forgotten and then make this appearance at the end. I also feel like Liza has an attraction to Josh [Nico Tortorella], I really do, and Josh continually has all these opportunities to mature and become more of a man. That flame may be on simmer, but I still think it’s there.

Foster: I know, it’s crazy! What’s going to happen, Darren, what’s going to happen?

Star: I would say that Josh is definitely not out of Liza’s life completely. The thing is, I don’t think you can look at Josh and Liza in a room, standing next to each other, and not feel something.

Foster: Bwaaahhh!

With luck, “Younger” will grow older. Sutton, how do you imagine Liza’s happy ending?

Foster: You know what’s tricky? I don’t know if it involves a guy. I do want Liza to be happy, but I think it’s being able to live her full, honest truth in the work world and not have to lie, and for her to be successful and to have power and ownership of her career. But not necessarily to ride off into the sunset with some boy.

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