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Efforts to change unemployment overhaul fail in House

Published: 2013-02-04 15:21:00
Updated: 2013-02-05 05:16:18

House Democrats came up short Monday night in several efforts to soften legislation that would slash jobless benefits as part of an overhaul of the state unemployment system.

The House voted 78-41 to give tentative approval to House Bill 4. A final vote is expected Tuesday before it moves to the Senate.

The bill cuts the maximum weekly unemployment benefit from $535 to $350 and replaces 26 weeks of state-paid benefits with a sliding cap of 12 to 20 weeks, based on the health of North Carolina's economy. It also slightly raises unemployment insurance taxes on employers.

Analysts said the changes, which would take effect July 1, would help the state repay $2.5 billion to the federal government three years faster than leaving the system unchanged. North Carolina borrowed the money to pay jobless benefits during the recession when state taxes paid by employers couldn't keep up with demand for benefits.

Rep. Paul Luebke, D-Durham, called the bill unbalanced, saying workers would lose $2.7 billion in benefits over the next four years while employers would pay only $24 million in extra unemployment taxes.

"Workers are taking a major hit," Luebke said, calling the benefit cuts "indefensible."

Rep. John Blust, R-Guilford, said that comparison fails to note that the federal unemployment taxes continue to rise on North Carolina employers until the debt is paid off.

"If you want to create more unemployed in the future, just try not addressing this problem some more," Blust said, calling the bill "the best solution out of a bunch of bad solutions."

The Republican majority was able to defeat amendments by Luebke that would retain a 26-week cap on benefits, by Rep. Paul Tine, D-Dare, that would raise slightly more in taxes to set the maximum weekly benefit at $425, by Rep. Kelly Alexander, D-Mecklenburg, and Rep. Deborah Ross, D-Wake, to revise the formulas for determining benefits and by Rep. Duane Hall, D-Wake, to restore benefit levels once the federal debt is repaid.

Bill sponsor Rep. Julia Howard rebuffed each attempt to change the bill, saying that the issue comes down to allowing employers to use their money to create jobs or having them pay taxes with it.

"If you who campaigned on creating jobs in the state of North Carolina, this is the No. 1 bill that you're going to have this year," said Howard, R-Davie.

"To say this is a jobs bill when all it does is cut unemployment benefits is a bit disingenuous," said Rep. Joe Sam Queen, D-Haywood.

Rep. Winkie Wilkins, D-Person, asked to delay the changes to the system until January so that people who have been out of work for months wouldn't lose their federal unemployment benefits.

A bill Congress passed on New Year's Day to avert the so-called "fiscal cliff" extends the federal benefits through the end of 2013, but changing the state unemployment program voids that provision of the federal law.

Luebke noted that the state stands to lose more than $600 million by ending the benefits early to an estimated 80,000 families, adding that most of that money would go directly back into the local economy.

Blust said people still have five months to find jobs before those benefits end, and Rep. Robert Brawley, R-Iredell, said it's time "to stop worrying about the downside of everything."

Although Wilkins' proposal generated the most debate of the night, it failed like all of the others the Democrats offered.

Earlier Monday, worker advocates and members of the Legislative Black Caucus railed against the proposal, saying it would devastate families dealing with job loss and would end up costing the state money.

"People on unemployment are not lazy," said Beth Messersmith, campaign director of North Carolina MomsRising. "(They include) parents trying to care for kids who need those benefits."

A majority of North Carolina's unemployed are out of work longer than 26 weeks, so cutting the length of state benefits to 20 weeks doesn't make sense, Messersmith said.

Doug Dickerson, state director for AARP, said older workers take 13 months on average to find a job after being laid off. He called for lawmakers to make more "reasoned decisions" instead of taking "draconian steps" too hastily.

The Legislative Black Caucus also criticized the quick movement of the bill, saying the changes under consideration need more debate.

"Let’s slow this train down. It’s moving too fast," said Rep. Garland Pierce, D-Scotland. "The consequences because of this legislation are going to be dire, especially in our communities where people are already having a hard time with no jobs."

Noting the loss of federal jobless benefits, Rep. Rodney Moore, D-Mecklenburg, said, "It’s a travesty that we’re cutting this lifeline so drastically at a time when we’re just beginning to recover."

Fourth District Congressman David Price even weighed in on the debate, sending a letter to the General Assembly asking them to delay the bill so that federal benefits could continue through the end of the year.

"Now is not the time to abandon tens of thousands of North Carolinians who have lost their jobs through no fault of their own and who stand to benefit from federal policy if their state government does not stand in the way," Price said in the letter. "Nor can our state, with an unemployment rate of 9.2 percent, afford to remove the projected $650 million in economic activity that would result from these benefits this year."

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Just think if this passes. Local employers will be holding back raises and perks from every employee. They will instill longer hours for less pay and expect you to drop everything to work for them. Because they know you WILL NOT MAKE IT on unemployment. Why does every one forget that all employees pay into the system to have that safety net? When we have leaders such as the last four and next four years who are out of touch with reality and do not create any jobs? Then they create a society that is dependent on the gov't to survive and cut that source out as well. Guess Obama couldn't have it both ways and now that the election is over his followers are going to get a good slap of reality and a wake up call!!! YOU GET WHAT YOU VOTED FOR SHEEP!!!!!!

We need to stop worrying about unemployment and the economy. Our top priority right now is gun control....so says Obama.

So unemployment is not a job.........who'd a thunk.

Those who are angry about the benefit cuts should spend less time demonizing the state lawmakers for attempting to be fiscally responsible and more time directing their anger at those who are abusing the system.

Nah after they shorten the amount of time that you can be on unemployment and when the unemployment numbers starts to drop because people can no longer apply for it they will stand up proudly and say "Unemployment in North Carolina has dropped thanks to us improving the economy". They will fail to mention that the unemployment numbers only count those who are currently on unemployment insurance.

the democrats don't want to cut off the freeloaders who vote for a living!

Again, I ask: is there a county by county breakdown showing the citizens of North Carolina how much money will be removed from the economy of each county due to this. A hundred million dollars per month is a huge amount to come out of our economy, and I think Art Pope's hand picked governor needs to let us know how much by county this will effect the NC economy. GUESS WHAT: Art Pope's dollah chain will not be able to lead the economy out of such a huge loss!!!

wrong....when you draw more unemployment than you paid in, you run out...right? Do you really expect to pay unemployment insurance for one month and then draw unemployment for 99 weeks??? Get real...that's not economics, that's Obamanomics.

Time to get some skin in the game!

From reading some of the comments below it would seem that the legislature can make the decisions they make because a significant number of people in our state don't really understand how things actually function. So much misinformation...

The people spoke in November, they did not want a job creator. They wanted their santa list completed though.

If you are living comfortably, there is always an excuse as to why this or that job is "just not right". As long as UE compensation is plentiful and never ending, there is no incentive to accept ANY job.

With the end or severe reduction of benefits, the excuses begin to go away and people start accepting jobs that pay the market rate for their skills. People are remarkably creative. They will find a way to make a living when the handouts stop.

In Econ 101, you learn that the more you pay for something, the more the supply increases. That principle applies to unemployed people. Liberals don't want to admit it, but its still true. The better the unemployment benefits become, the more people will be there to collect them.

The problem with unemployment is it often pays people more then what they would make if they went and took that job at McDonalds or the drug store or whatever else they can find. Therefore I agree with this. Sometimes people need to take what they can get in the short term and keep looking. I know that it sucks to go from making 15 dollars an hour to 10 but still why should the taxpayers continue to may you when you can in fact find a job. And before anybody refutes this statement I know for a fact that this happens my neighbor has told me time and again that she can't afford to take at various places because she would make less then her unemployment.

ryderted.... yes, but the state mandated the unemployment tax. Regardless of who pays for it, employee or employer, gov't is forcing it be paid. Why should the employer pay for you to not work?

This scheme will work to help pay back to the Fed earlier. On the other hand, it will make more people eligible for food stamps, utility assistance, housing assistance, medicaid, and other assistance programs.

what did u expect.. they all need to be laid off

I understand the thought process but think a little harder. Cut the amount of unemployment and increase the amount needed for food stamps and other government assistance. How is that going to allow us to pay the debt off quicker? It's not adding up.

It would be interesting to analyze how many of those people still on unemployment were making less than $30,000 per year and how long they have been on unemployment. The current process has no end do to the Obama administration and Congress extensions to unemployment. Just think, $534.00 per week or more than $24,000 and all you need to do is fill in five simple questions weekly on the NC web site.

Lets do the math - 80,000 people lose at least $100/week (not all get the maximum, and I'm not counting those who will be kicked off unemployment altogether) $8,000,000 per week less money going into the economy - means $8M/wk less in sales for NC companies, so they'll have to lay off more workers...

Real smart...

Here's an idea... Let's pay the congressmen the same as what unemployment pays and see how well they can live off it. Then when they "cut" it back further they also get "cut" back... I'm sure opinions would change drastically...

hp277....so, you solution is give unemployment to anyone laid off - FOREVER....NO END....YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORK IF YOU DON'T WANT TO WORK....that's your answer?

How long is long enough for a liberal? You actually believe there is a magic number of weeks and only the democrats know what that number of weeks is? Seriously, how many weeks should someone receive unemployment benefits???

"So glad I am no longer a resident of NC! I can not believe that the people who are elected to protect the citizens are cutting a very important lifeline. It's hard enough for people who are forced to rely on unemployment benefits (which pays at most 60 ish % of their original income) and now it'll pay appx 42%. Wake UP! Fight back."

I guess you support communism then. Because the only way you will be happy is if the government provided everyone a job.

The truth is, there are plenty of jobs out there...but they are jobs that people don't want to do.

Also, if I were a hiring manager I WOULD NOT HIRE SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN SITTING ON THEIR HANDS FOR 3 MONTHS!!

I was out of job for over three years. I would thank Perdue that I got better benefits than my friends in NY. At the same time I also noticed that state is short of unemployment fund by ~$2.5B. Governmment has to deal with the debt, state or fedral level, this one or next one. It is irresponsible to shift the responsibility to the next one. By the way, I would like to see that government can bid some job that is now done by illegals and give to the jobless, who can work on these jobs. (Government can raise the pay rate with the fund to be more desirable)

uh huh dats right.... have you ever thought that a person could find a job and not need food stamps and other government assistance? I didn't think so...

Alot of comments make sense some true some not, I have to agree with steve0913..if we the people, can only get it done. any suggestions on how?

How many of you voted a straight republican ticket in November are here now complaining about this? This is what the majority of voters wanted in NC, to be a red state. Here ya have it Blanch, here ya have it.

If nothing else, this will "light a fire" under some.

Why does liberals believe entitlements are a right? Since when did work become a nasty word? Welfare and food stamps are now recoginized as an honest way to make a living.... what is happening under Obama???? he has created a welfare society that only votes for democrats, and people applaud him.

"Not everyone has space for a garden. Some may rent and are not permitted to grow one. Also, unless you have a greenhouse, you're not going to put fresh food on the table 12 months out of the year.

I love the assumptions and answers that so many people have." kornfan2448

That is absolutely not true. I garden, in the ground 12 months of the year. Sure, the winter months require different crops such as; collards, cabbage, rutabugers, turnips, all types of salad greens, onions, etc. , but yes, you can feed yourself with a garden 12 months of the year. Sorry you did not know that.

xylem01....there you go again with your "welfare and entitlements are a right". Vote democrat and live off tax payers forever.

janettedder87: After being laid off twice in the last 18 months I would gladly give up unemployment benefits for a job. Anyone out there that needs a paralegal with 30 yrs experience please give me a call.

Me: This is the most common thing for folks on unemployment. The tiny minority is what most people think is the norm, which is furthest from the truth. The people so adamantly against any state assistance, like UE, are ultimately just going against their own self-interest.

Unemployment is only for two years but welfare is for life. Why not cut the welfare benefits and change the rules? I dont mind paying unemployment benefits but I do mind paying for welfare for people who dont work and never worked. Give them an incentive to work.

I want an honest answer. How long are the tax payers suppose to support people that are unemployed? I see signs everywhere? Don't you think after x-many months that the working people are tired of paying for the non-working. And believe me, I lived with one of "them" (not all unemployed) He REFUSED to get a job because he said I make more money NOT working, why should I take a lower paying job when I get 500 a week?

And there you have the mentality of the welfare state!

Obama said the private sector is fine, he closed down his jobs cabinet, there are plenty of jobs out there people just ask bo..

Go get you a darn job :)

So McCrory want to cut off a lifeline for many unemployed folks and Duke Energy wants to raise residential electric rates by 12%?

Sounds about right. Enjoy your Republican leadership NC.

Ignorant people believe you can spend twice as much as you have and it is ok..... is there no sanity, or smart people, left in the world? How can NC continue to spend more unemployment benefits than it receives to pay for them??? Someone help me understand how this is sustainable. Our federal government spends 46cents more of every dollar than it takes in....how much longer can that go on? No one has an answer, no one cares, just keep my check coming and stop worrying about it. Ignorance is running this country and ignorant people keep voting for the same people who keep them on welfare.

I'm sorry, but I see signs EVERYWHERE. I visit company sites...people are hiring. I know it's hard but SUCK IT UP and take that $10 and hour job. Quit living off the backs of the tax payers. I can barely afford food, but I see the food stamp crowd munching down. I have cut back to one decent meal a day...how many unemployed have to do that? I bet a big fat ZERO!

"Workers are taking a major hit," Luebke said, calling the benefit cuts "indefensible." Mr. Luebke, they are not workers they are collecting unemployement. I know people who have said, "I'll look for a job, but not seriously until my benefits run out." Tic Toc, better get off it now.

This will actually make some go look for a job ibstead sitting home all day watching msnbc...

Oh and posting on wral all day how great our freeloader prez is.. lol get to work you bums :)

Signs I've seen Jo-Ann Fabric HIRING, Sheetz HIRING, Lowes HIRING, HOME DEPOT HIRING, etc.

Oh and you can THANK OBAMACARE (another thing the left deemed as a "right") for employers only hiring Part-Time. Yep, your "rights" are destroying America, while the true rights of American citizens are getting destroyed by Obama.

@ lessismore, this scheme is going to allow more people to qualify for governmental assistance. This is not finding a solution to the problem, it is allowing NC to use less money and shift the costs elsewhere, to federally funded programs instead. This is all that this is doing.

lessismore it's meant to smooth over droughts and be replenished in times of plenty. Perhaps you should check into the history of unemmployment. Once again EMPLOYERS do NOT PAY UNEMPLOYMENT TAX. They are merely the middlemen that ultimately reduce employees salaried to fund it. Raise all salaries and force unemployment to be taken from your check and it's the same thing. The current way just gives GOOD employers a chance to foot more of the bill to help stabilize the economy which is only good for them.

Folks...unemployment runs out, it's NOT a permanent thing.

tnowen: I work for a construction company that called some employees back to work and they refused the work because receive more from unemployment than they do in a paycheck after taxes and court ordered deductions. Unemployment should not pay more than working pays.

Me: It doesn't. That is simply not how unemployment works. If that is happening then people are lying and/or you are offering about half of what they were paid before.

For the first time as an adult, I am out of work, have been for the past 2 months. Im a single female, college graduate, home owner and mother of a college student. The reason Im out of work? I was contracting for a major corp, the position went permanent but b/c a perm employee was getting laid off, she was give my slot, even though she HAS none of the qualifications necessary. The ppl who say "there are jobs out there, but they are jobs no one wants"..thats a crock. Since 2008 when my 18 year career at IBM ended due to downsizing, I've been working jobs no one else wants so i can pay my mortgage, and now, even this B/S jobs are not available. These ppl who think there are jobs needs a reality check and I want them to pay a mortgage and car payment (on a used car) plus everyday expenses on $311/wk. I have sent @50 resumes and have had 2 return calls. Everyday I am on career websites ad apply for almost anything. Unemployment isnt a joy ride, maybe those saying it is should try

To those saying "there are plenty of jobs out there"; provide some examples. Fast food places have dozens of applications for every low-income job opening; tech companies want highly trained workers only (no on the job training). Construction? Farms? Come on, where are these jobs sitting around waiting on these unemployed folks to get them?

Fact is, if your unemployment check keeps your family's head barely above water with paying the bills and putting food on the table and a McWage won't, why take the fast food job if it puts you underwater? That's stupid and no one should be criticized for not doing that.

durbingoodwin: you said it right. Obviously, some folks that have never been unemployed don't even have a clue! I guess when the shoe is on the other foot it will be a different story for all of the "unemployed people haters."

So Perdue goes into debt with the feds for $2.5 billion and the solution is to keep racking up debt for some? I don't think so. Responsibility means living within your means and that begins with local, county, state and federal budgets.

We have to do it in our personal lives, government better learn fast to do the same because their only revenue is from US.

We can't afford their debt anymore.

"Why does liberals believe entitlements are a right? Since when did work become a nasty word? Welfare and food stamps are now recoginized as an honest way to make a living.... what is happening under Obama???? he has created a welfare society that only votes for democrats, and people applaud him."

Really? so folks who have lost their job, can't find new work and are living on U/E feel they are "entitled", huh?

It never ceases to amaze me the level of hatred and contempt conservatives have for folks who have fallen on bad times and need help. That is what U/E is for....

How incredibly sad

"Once again EMPLOYERS do NOT PAY UNEMPLOYMENT TAX."

Yes, they do. And if you think your salary is reduced to cover it, you know nothing about market forces.

"Some may point out that unemployment is a tax paid for by employers. Personally, I've played this game. Unemployment is paid for by employers AFTER they've deducted it from your real salary. It is STILL a tax on the employee. It is just forced planning." - ryderted

And the extended federal benefits (57 weeks additional) are paid for mainly with borrowed money out of the general fund - that is why it was part of the "fiscal cliff" tax & spending "deal".

IOW, US taxpayers are on the hook for this "temporary" measure now in its 4th year!

How long to we continue to attempt to live off borrowed money or let others pay our bills? When do "temporary" emergency measures end?

When do we start facing our obligations rather than just kicking the can dow the road and leave our mess to the future?

To the entitlement crazy libs there is always another "crisis" calling for more "temporary" spending measures.

"I know it's hard but SUCK IT UP and take that $10 and hour job. Quit living off the backs of the tax payers. I can barely afford food, but I see the food stamp crowd munching down. I have cut back to one decent meal a day...how many unemployed have to do that? I bet a big fat ZERO!"

another example of the "compassionate" conservatives.

How sad.

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