Chancellor asks for patience, waits for testing to address Poe Hall contamination worries
In an exclusive interview, Chancellor Randy Woodson sat down with WRAL’s Keely Arthur to talk about Poe Hall. The once-busy education and psychology building abruptly closed last fall after environmental testing revealed high levels of cancer and severe illness-causing chemicals.
In the 30-minute interview, Chancellor Woodson defended the university’s conduct on the matter, something many have been critical of.
Since Poe Hall closed, 5 On Your Side has received 152 reports of cancer in people who worked or studied at Poe Hall. Many others have reported asthma, tumors and developmental issues in their children.
For now, Woodson will not comment on individual health concerns. Records show university employees and outside agencies had difficulty getting a hold of university leadership to address the crisis.
What led up to the Poe Hall closure?
The NC State academic building opened in 1971. Through the years, several employees told WRAL that they suspected potentially heightened rates of cancer in people who worked or studied at the building.
Last August, one employee made a formal complaint to the university. Another filed a complaint with the Department of Labor. By mid-November, environmental testing of Poe confirmed the presence of high levels of PCBs. The chemicals, once used in building materials, are now a banned, known carcinogen. Woodson tells WRAL News he was first made aware of the concerns and testing in November, and it was his decision to close the building.
Woodson’s focus remains on testing Poe Hall
Testing the building has been Woodson’s chief focus of the investigation into Poe Hall. “In order to fully engage people about health implications, we have to have questions answered about the environment in the building,” Woodson said.
Woodson maintains he is unable to comment on specific health issues, such as cancer, until the university-sanctioned building investigation is complete. That messaging has proved frustrating for hundreds of people who spent time in Poe Hall and seek more concrete health information.
During the interview, WRAL’s 5 On Your Side reporter Keely Arthur read Woodson a text from a current employee who called the university’s response to people who spent time in Poe Hall and later became sick ‘dehumanizing.’ Woodson noted concern and then brought his response back to the building testing.
“If we didn’t value the health of the employees we wouldn’t have closed the building down and begin to evaluate the building so we could provide the appropriate information. So clearly we value the health and safety of our employees in all of our buildings, and we are working really hard to understand the building,” Woodson said.
The university will wait to provide guidance on PCB screenings
PCBs can cause a myriad of health problems, some of which are not immediately obvious. PCBs can be detected through a blood test. Several NC State students have told WRAL 5 On Your Side that they’ve been unable to obtain such a test through the campus health system.
When asked if the university would consider partnering with a group that could test for PCBs, Woodson said that consideration would come after the National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health completes its investigation into Poe Hall. The CDC told WRAL News that a typical investigation takes six to 12 months to complete.
Records show communication issues and delayed investigations
NC State is learning as it goes. Woodson told WRAL News that the Poe Hall situation is the first of its kind for the university system. He said he is not worried about the reputation of the university. “I’m not worried about the reputation of this university because I know we are doing the right things,” he said. Yet, records show delays and communication breakdowns have been a constant theme with Poe Hall.
In an email given exclusively to 5 On Your Side, one NC State administrator wrote he hit “dead ends” a couple of times while he tried to alert the “University’s Environmental Health and Safety department” about potentially concerning rates of cancer. Memos from the Centers for Disease Control show a federal health investigation stalled for months as they waited for the go-ahead from NC State.
Emails from the Environmental Protection Agency reveal that the EPA learned about the closure of Poe Hall from WRAL's reports. In one email, sent weeks after Poe Hall closed, an EPA PCB expert asked two university administrators: “Is there an NC State contact to discuss this situation? I still have not heard anything from the university.”
We asked Woodson about the breakdown in communication between NC State and the EPA. “I’m not going to answer that,” Woodson said. When pressed and told he was the face of the university, Woodson said he didn’t engage with the EPA.
Records show the email was sent to Amy Orders, NC State’s senior director of emergency preparedness and strategic initiatives, and Robert Segura, the university’s director of environmental health and safety. Other agencies not given access to Poe Hall.
Another email from the EPA shows an EPA employee was interested in visiting Poe Hall, but the agency confirms that visit never happened.
When asked why NC State has not let agencies like the Centers for Disease Control, the Environmental Protection Agency or independent investigators into Poe Hall to test the building and assist in learning what students and employees were exposed to, the Chancellor said that Poe Hall is university property.
“We’re the building owner. It’s critical for us to evaluate the building and understand what the nature of the building is,” Woodson said.
Geosyntec tests Poe Hall
To that end, the university hired a consulting firm to test Poe Hall. To date, Geosyntec Consulting has taken 81 samples from the seven-story building. But an expert in that field from the University of Iowa says they should be taking 30 samples from a single classroom.
“We’ve done one phase of testing. So let’s not evaluate the thoroughness of the testing until we’re done,” Woodson said.
Another concern 5 On Your Side asked the chancellor about involved a recommendation in Geosyntec's first testing report released in February.
It reads in part: "Note that before returning HVAC systems to service, additional interim steps may be appropriate based on the results of bulk sampling, including replacing or encapsulating portions of mechanical systems, cleaning and follow-up bulk sampling."
Some worried that meant sources of the PCBs might be removed before the final round of testing. If that were to happen, the results may not accurately reflect the conditions people experienced while working or learning in the building.
We showed that part of the report to Woodson and asked if any sources of PCBs in Poe Hall have been or would be mitigated before the final round of testing.
"We're not manipulating the environment to get the testing, we're testing to understand the environment," Woodson said.
When will it be done?
“I’d expect the test to be done toward the end of April,” Woodson said.
Woodson said the completion of building testing will coincide with more answers to health questions. Until then, Woodson asks for continued patience from a Wolfpack community growing increasingly impatient.
For more information on Poe Hall from the university. Go their website: https://www.ncsu.edu/poe-hall-updates/
