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tracmister Jun 17, 3:36 p.m.
Any argument can be made not to pay teachers. Regardless of the argument, if you don't pay them, it will be the good ones who leave the profession for higher paying jobs. Second, if you really want to understand the problems, shift focus on discipline issues in school and why principals aren't suspending them. How about why charter schools are allowed to tout smaller class sizes but the NCGOP keeps making cuts to increase them. How about having the legislatures take the high school common core tests and see how many of them pass them to see if the test is valid to begin with.
Plenty Coups Jun 17, 3:24 p.m.
Yes, NEA is a union. But they have no power here in NC and neither does NCAE which is not a union. Again, this is why NC teacher pay is at the bottom of the nation and it's also why states that have unions that have power get paid better and........also have generally better results. One would think that for all the ultra conservative attack on teacher's unions, even in a state that doesn't have one, they could at least show actual evidence of it being overall harmful. All I see is over simplifications and the pretense that the exceptions are the rule. You guys are amazing.
Plenty Coups Jun 17, 3:21 p.m.
Civitas, where you got that quote from, is then also a "union", as it also gives money to political causes and is funded by voluntary contributions just like NCAE.
joycejunior Jun 17, 3:16 p.m.
Go live in Antarctica so you don't have to worry about unwise expenditures of your tax dollars.
Alex25 Jun 17, 3:01 p.m.
Why?? Govt and thus Govt schools do not spend the money we give them wisely as it now. They never have.
Outcomes are not about money, or more money -- TAX PAYER money.
krimson Jun 17, 2:15 p.m.
A person paying for membership to an organization doesn't make that organization a Union. Or are you arguing that the NRA, with its clear political agenda and required membership dues, is a Union? How about the Fraternal Order of the Police? I can list a hundred different professional Associations that represent its members in one way or another, and not a single one of those could be classified as a Union...
yankee1 Jun 17, 2:08 p.m.
If it's not acting as a union, why do they collect dues?
lessismore Jun 17, 1:43 p.m.
Why is teachers pay the number one focus in this years budget??? For 100 years under democrats nothing was done to help teachers....now that's all everyone is concerned with.....
Volvo2 Jun 17, 1:31 p.m.
NC is a right to work state and there are no unions allowed. NCAE is an educational organization. When teachers pay dues to NCAE, they are not paying dues to NEA.
Mo Blues Jun 17, 1:30 p.m.
My plumber comes when I call 24/7, competently does what I need done, and goes away when he's finished. I don't have to support the state's plumbing needs and have his salary routed through the government bureaucracy.
chris42m Jun 17, 1:28 p.m.
Its more than just bloated administration. We have 17 State Supported institutions in the UNC System; enough classroom hours for every man, woman and child in the state to attend college with seats to spare. Then there are the community colleges in practically every county. Yet We, the tax payers, subsidize out of state (and country) students to attend these institutions of higher learning at the expense of the state tax payer and other education venues.
If everyone wants to get more money for primary and secondary education, then start scaling back on the universities that get the lion's share of the budget. Or, better yet, break out the spending along the lines of primary, secondary, and higher education so that the taxpayers can see where their dollars are being spent (or wasted).
gkgreene Jun 17, 12:37 p.m.
Curious to learn how the teachers' salaries compare (adjusting for 9 month vs 12 month & paid benefits) to other professions with a BA degree. Would like to see this so we could have something to guide what it should be.
Are there other issues that would help out - reducing the extra paper work, not having to deal with mandated computer programs that do not work (still recommend that all state government software be provided and maintained by NC State vs consultants), having to learn a new method of teaching that may not work on such a frequent basis, not having to deal with discipline problems, etc
chris42m Jun 17, 12:17 p.m.
Actually, The "Education" budget for Fiscal year 2014 (Which ends June 30th) is $11.55 BILLION from the General Fund alone. Add to that the monies from the lottery, Cities and Counties, and Federal Grants, and it turns out to be what Everett Dirksen once said:
"A billion here, a billion there, pretty soon, you're talking real money."
aspenstreet1717 Jun 17, 11:46 a.m.
Maybe but I have seen the leader of the NCAE on TV news many times. Speaking for his members and encouraging protest.
The teachers could strike if they wanted to. You mean they can't strike and avoid getting fired.
Groogrux Jun 17, 11:35 a.m.
Exactly right teach4er,
Not sure why people like Yankee1 continue to think NCAE is a union. Ignorant? Trolling? Or both? Less than 1/2 of teachers are even members. Since there has been decent raise in 5-6 years, the "association" obviously isn't that effective. No collective bargaining. No mandatory dues. No right to strike. Doesn't sound like a union to me. Troll away Yankee ( or continue to be ignorant).
teach4er Jun 17, 11:30 a.m.
I agree with seankelly, you are ignorant. Unions are outlawed in NC and teachers have no collective bargaining rights, if we did we sure as heck wouldn't be in the situation we are now.
aspenstreet1717 Jun 17, 11:04 a.m.
Plumbers and 'wildlife specialists' are businesses with overhead. Your bill was not what they made.
sisu Jun 17, 10:59 a.m.
Okay. Very interesting information but the wildlife specialist I hired was not an employee of the state. The state could not come out to my house to perform the task. The state entity informed me that they could not possibly come to all the homes that need assistance on their budget. I was given the phone numbers of private wildlife specialist companies to use.
chris42m Jun 17, 10:57 a.m.
I would like to know where all of the money spent on "education" is going is Teachers are so poorly paid and schools have no supplies. According to the website of the Office of the State comptroller (http://www.osc.nc.gov/), 56% of the State's General Fund expenditures for the month of may went to "Education". That is over twice what was spent on Health and Human Services, 5 Times what was spent on Public Safety, Corrections, and Justice, and over 18 times what was spent on all other State Services. What, exactly are they spending the money on?
BTW, that $1.1 Billion pent last month from the General Fund on Education does not include monies given to education by the lottery, the individual Counties, and Federal Grants. Where is the accountability? I hear people cry about "Dollars Per Student", but that is the perfect example of someone not wanting any accountability. Their idea is "Just give us the money and we will spend it as WE see fit."
joycejunior Jun 17, 10:54 a.m.
Yeah, thanks for keeping NC education spending at the bottom of the nation the last few years. Thanks for proposals that depend on increased funding from the lottery in order to fund it. Gee, isn't our General Assembly just swell?
woodsman12169 Jun 17, 10:09 a.m.
look what wildlife people make working for the state, its less than teachers and they have a 4 year degree.
westernwake1 Jun 17, 10:06 a.m.
Well - you are ignoring the part about Federal and State law requiring that school districts provide bus transportation to students to public K-12 schools.
ncprr1 Jun 17, 9:55 a.m.
I am sure that the school district leaders are just coming to thank the GA for paying attention to them and providing the teachers with pay raises. A little gratitude for a change, it's about time.
westernwake1 Jun 17, 9:51 a.m.
Nearly every elementary school has both before and after school programs that parents pay for. These normally raise about $25,000 per year for each school. This money is used usually for school supplies - otherwise the school would not have any supplies because nearly all the funding for school supplies has been removed.
Holy Carp. Jun 17, 9:49 a.m.
It's amazing that people still want to blame the teachers 100% for poor test scores. One- not all children take standardized tests equally but they want it all equal across the board. Two- I totally disagree that these tests actually reflect what the child has learned in the classroom. Three- If they would just stick with one format and stop flip-flopping around they may actually be able to lock it all in and produce the results they want. Four- A lot of this starts at home with the parents. Some teachers can't teach when they spend half of their time redirecting. Parents want zero accountability in this and put all of it on the school. Parents also think teachers have full focus on their kid and their kid only during the day. It just doesn't work that way.
westernwake1 Jun 17, 9:40 a.m.
Now minimum wage workers in Seattle make more than starting teachers in North Carolina.
aspenstreet1717 Jun 17, 9:34 a.m.
Because we're told time and time again that more $$$$ insures better results. Lets see the results. End to mediocre.
sisu Jun 17, 9:27 a.m.
I just had a wildlife specialist out to my house last week to get a critter out of my attic. Cost $425 and he was here about 30 minutes. Makes it hard for me to think teachers don't deserve more money for actually teaching children.
dirtydozen431 Jun 17, 9:22 a.m.
We have google and everybody has a cell phone so just look stuff up. Who needs some sheepskin.
HGA_Matt Jun 17, 9:21 a.m.
I'm glad that you can assume every family has multiple parents at home to even make this an option. What about couples who met in college and both have student loans? My wife and I have nearly $600 a month in student loans, and regardless of how else we live, that bill needs to get paid. Gas prices to drive out to Raleigh/Cary/RTP where the jobs are. There are many factors that go into parents' decisions about what kind of care their children need. It's naiive and narrow minded to make assumptions that everyone can have a 2 parent, 1 income scenario.
seankelly15 Jun 17, 9:16 a.m.
BULLDOZER - "Pay the teachers some extra $$ to watch the kids."
How incredibly offensive. That is how you see teachers? Babysitters? What do you do for a living - I am sure ANYONE including a trained chimp could do YOUR job.
seankelly15 Jun 17, 9:13 a.m.
YANKEE1 - First of all, it is the NY Post... I am surprised that you didn't also quote the Washington Times. Second, association is not the same as a union. I belong to a number of professional associations and NONE provide for collective bargaining - an essential component in a union. They are involved with lobbying just like every other special interest group. Try reading something outside of the echo chamber; a story based on statistics and not conjecture and anecdote - you just come across as ignorant.
ospreysilver Jun 17, 9:09 a.m.
Just think about how ridiculous this whole debate is, your paying the plumber and AC guy 30- 33 hrly, yet pay a teacher with a 4yr degree or masters 15hrly and limit them to 10mth earnings, ironically the same hourly amount McDonalds workers are fighting to get!
AppStgrad Jun 17, 9:07 a.m.
What about instead of judging teachers on their students test scores, we look at how engaged in learning the students are? Or how many books they've read and can speak intelligibly about? Or their ability to explain complex math problems to others. Those things actually show the fruits f a teachers labor, not one developmentally inappropriate test.
aspenstreet1717 Jun 17, 8:35 a.m.
Raise taxes again. OK. we better see some major improvement in results. We're not accepting mediocre anymore.
Groogrux Jun 17, 8:29 a.m.
Bulldozer, so teachers are babysitters? Great. By the way, many schools have before/after care already for a very reasonable cost.
BULLDOZER Jun 17, 8:25 a.m.
Here's a big money saver. Stop all the busing and transportation to and from schools. Allow the parents to drop off early and pick up late from school so they can make work. Pay the teachers some extra $$ to watch the kids. Win win. Would save 100's of millions a year. Will never happen.
Published: 2008-01-11 14:37:00
Updated: 2010-06-21 13:53:03