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greeniz76 Jun 18, 12:42 p.m.
Let's look at that in a different scenario:
You come upon a dead body laying in the street, you pick up the bloody knife, someone calls the police, and they have no right to question you? It looks like you committed the crime and you were "caught" holding the weapon, and you say the police shouldn't suspect you? Furthermore, they find that you have been convicted for murder previously and you don't feel that these cirumstances combined justify an arrest? The police speak to you because they suspect you MAY have committed a crime or because you have been observed in a situation that looks suspicious. The police do not decide whether you committed the crime or not, but simply if there sufficient reason to charge you with a crime. This man refused to prove he was rightfully forcing his way into the property, refused to prove his identity, and refused to cooperate in general. He got what he deserved for being so hatefully obnoxious.
Lightfoot3 Jun 18, 11:17 a.m.
"SOmeone had tried to break in on my mom while she was home alone. She dialed 911" - Minarchist
Straw man, that's not the scenario presented. What if she's asleep and doesn't know it? Should the police just leave and let the guy continue breaking in?
"If I suspect someone is breaking into my neighbors home I get a description, license plate number, ect. If they start carrying out personal items Ill call the police" - Minarchist
So if they take the stuff out the back so you can't see it, you'll never call the police, even though you suspected a burglary was in progress? That's just cray-cray.
nufsaid Jun 16, 11:23 a.m.
I applaud those that are vigilant of the rights of citizens. But I do think that this guy based on the circumstances has no leg to stand on regarding his desire to sue the police department. Anyone can sue anyone else for anything. That may be a good thing. But I do think that this lawsuit may well belong in the frivolous category. I doubt he will find an attorney to press his case.
JustOneGodLessThanU Jun 16, 10:06 a.m.
What if these folks just *leave* something?...like illegal items that they call the police on your for...or something that's not easily detected. (recording devices, powder in your food, a virus)
What if an ex-friend just destroys all of your treasured heirlooms, photos, mother's ashes and pets that, in terms of cash value, are maybe worth the insurance deductible?
Are you a member of the Anti-Neighborhood Watch? A card-carrying No-Snitcher? Because criminals would love you as a neighbor. I mean, that guy could be shooting up his own house from his car in the street, right?
JustOneGodLessThanU Jun 16, 9:43 a.m.
"But, officer, that's not my weed in my pocket... No problem. No need to apologize. You're welcome. You have a nice day too. Buh-bye."
LuvsThePack Jun 13, 5:22 p.m.
Here's the thing. Cops see a guy drilling a lock. There are only two possibilities:
1) He has a legal right to be drilling that lock,or
2) He is drilling that lock without a legal right to do so.
Our resident civil rights folks seem to think it is OK for the cop to investigate as long as an illegal act is being performed. If the drilling is being done LEGALLY, then by golly, the cops have no business investigating it.
But here's the rub: The cops just see a guy drilling a lock. They don't know what is happening UNTIL they investigate. And they have reasonable suspicion since drilling a lock is pretty much the way 0.00000001% of us choose to enter our homes.
We should all be happy (if we were drilling it legally) that police are serving and protecting by ASKING us when they see us doing such a thing. Because MUCH more often than not, such an act is an illegal act. And as long as they don't violate my rights in the process, there is absolutely no problem with investigating me.
kiki2 Jun 13, 5:12 p.m.
How do you expect the police to prove anything if he won't even show them his id?? Ridiculous. Maybe we should all just go pick the lock of a million dollar home and claim we own it...I mean, our word is good right? The man could've very easily remedied the situation and he chose not to cooperate. He gave his name which does NOT show up as the owner of the property. He could've given the company name or explained it but he chose not to do that...
LuvsThePack Jun 13, 4:59 p.m.
You're the only one saying "prove they're innocent". No one ever has to prove their innocence, even in a court of law (except for civil court, where you can lose due to a preponderance of evidence). The state has the burden of proving guilt.
We get that. You're huge into civil rights.
But when police have probably cause or reasonable suspicion, they are legally allowed to investigate a situation. No laws are broken, and no rights are violated. If someone doesn't want to answer them, they are perfectly free to plead the fifth and not say another word. But they face being arrested/detained while warrants are obtained. So it really is up to them. If you're somewhere you are legally allowed to be, then what is the big deal with telling them who you are and showing them the deed that you're holding in your hand. We all get it -- you don't HAVE to do that. But it sure is easier than being arrested, isn't it?
Minarchist Jun 13, 4:58 p.m.
No wonder our civil liberties are being destroyed slowly. People dont even know they have them in the first place!
Minarchist Jun 13, 4:55 p.m.
Someone gets it! Some here will try to "win". Stay tuned!
Minarchist Jun 13, 4:54 p.m.
You;re the only won trying to "win". Interesting admission. SOmeone had tried to break in on my mom while she was home alone. She dialed 911, they asked her to lock herself in the bedroom until the officers arrived. Your other scenario is nonsense. If I suspect someone is breaking into my neighbors home I get a description, license plate number, ect. If they start carrying out personal items Ill call the police with my descriptiono. I dont call the police everytime I see someone I dont know. Thats insane and just plain nosey.
Not Now Jun 13, 4:53 p.m.
I am on friendly terms with my immediate neighbors. When I plan to be away from home for some time (even overnight), I tell them. If I have someone coming over to feed the pets and pick up the mail, I tell my neighbors who will be coming by, what they look like, and what they drive. If someone else happens by, I would hope my neighbors call the cops first, and me second. My neighbors do the same with me.
Minarchist Jun 13, 4:47 p.m.
You think people have to cooperate and prove they are innocent to police when they are stopped? WOW get well soon.
loj68 Jun 13, 4:45 p.m.
It is up to police to prove he does not own it, we are not required to provide proof of home ownership to police.
Minarchist Jun 13, 4:44 p.m.
Hiibel Vs Nevada is only about giving your name if being suspected of a crime, which he did. If not how did they check the deed with no name? Terry vs Ohio is a pat down and going in your pockets searching for weapons if suspected.
Lamborghini Mercy Jun 13, 4:39 p.m.
It's worked for years! Who am I to assume some one pulling into vacant home is a burglar? I don't know who lives across the street or who they may have invited over.
LuvsThePack Jun 13, 4:37 p.m.
No one knows, including the cops. We realize you can't give an honest answer because you have dug to bigga a hole for yourself already. Anyone who would prefer cops to allow someone to continue breaking into their mother's house without so much as asking them a questions is showing their true colors. If the guy with the drill belongs there, then he will be able to respond and let them know that.
Notice I didn't even state whether or not your mom was even home. You went straight to the answer that continues the hole you're digging. So we're to think you wouldn't want the cops to even stop when a guy is drilling your mom's front door lock while she's in the house?
You guys lose again, on every level.
Minarchist Jun 13, 4:37 p.m.
Ok Ill ask my father tonight. If it was a traffic stop and the driver had marijuana in plain site or smelled marijauna the officer can search the car. They could call a dog and if alerted to marijuana search the car without a warrant. If the police came in your house and you had marijauna on the coffee table they can legally search your living room without a warrant, but NOT your bedroom without a warrant. If the cop smell marijuana when he walked by your house he cannot come in and search without a warrant UNLESS he knocks on your door and hears scrambling. The evidence could be destroyed and thats an EXIGENT circumstance. An officer can perfrom a "Terry Stop" without a warrant. He CANNOT search because a neighbor called the police on you for something they think they see. If that was the case I could call the police anytime I wanted someone searched. Get that through your skull.
Pepe Silvia Jun 13, 4:35 p.m.
Actually the burden of proof when it comes to racism falls on you, because you are making a claim with nothing to back it up while in making racist assumptions yourself that if a white person calls police on a black person it is related to skin color and not the actions of the black person.
Cops were not called because of a 'black man walking down the street" they were called on a person who had never been seen in the neighborhood before was attempting to gain access without a key to a home known to be vacant.
Absolutely a reasonable reason to call police.
Winston Jun 13, 4:33 p.m.
I f you and others would quit feeding Lamborghini Mercy and Minarchist, they'd whither away.
nufsaid Jun 13, 4:30 p.m.
Once again I wonder if this is relevant http://realestate.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=20482759
Minarchist Jun 13, 4:28 p.m.
Any lawyer would tell you not to cooperate with police. CAll one. You wont. The first thing they will tell you is to not say a word and not to consent to any searches as soon as you make contact.
nufsaid Jun 13, 4:23 p.m.
You assume that this guy is actually the owner of the property. I have not seen any evidence that he owns this property.
Pepe Silvia Jun 13, 4:23 p.m.
I can't imagine why... you sound like such a wonderful and caring neighbor.
Minarchist Jun 13, 4:20 p.m.
Yes. How do you know who I invited to my house when Im not there for whatever reason? Mind your business. I have homeowners insurance. If you want to be a good neighbor, write down a license plate when they start carry my stuff out. Ill take it from there. Thanks,
TypeYourNameHere____ Jun 13, 4:17 p.m.
The real issue is that an HOA is able to foreclose on a house, sell the debt at auction, and have an investor or group of investors pay for deed. Earquhart and his investors purchased the lien and thus has deed to the property. The problem comes when he rents this out to an upstanding citizen. That upstanding citizen will be foreclosed on by the bank who is the senior lien holder. Just because Earquhart purchased absolved the HOA lien, doesn't mean he's off the hook for the mortgage. Here's where the scam comes in....Someone will pay $1800 in rent every month, Earquhart collects and recoups after 2-3 months. The bank who has the mortgage will foreclose on this house, but it will take months!!! By that time, Earquhart has done his damage. He and the bank may end up settling at a cost that is pennies to the dollar. Its a loop hole in our system. We need to make our HOAs accountable to notify banks before HOAs file foreclosures. The bank could have bought the lien from the HOA.
LuvsThePack Jun 13, 4:10 p.m.
So, if someone is drilling out your sweet mother's front door lock, and you aren't around with your 9mm to deliver your vigilante justice on them, you wouldn't want the police to investigate? Remember, according to you, that person is doing nothing worthy of suspicion. The police should just leave him well enough alone.
Remember, that's YOUR argument.
LuvsThePack Jun 13, 4:07 p.m.
When you move into an HOA community, you agree to certain terms. That includes payment of HOA fees. The HOA has every right to place a lien on properties when people fail to pay their bills (because you entered into that agreement as part of the terms of the purchase). At some point, a lien holder can foreclose if payment is not made under previously set terms.
If one doesn't like it, they are free to buy a house somewhere else where there is no HOA.
kikinc Jun 13, 4:03 p.m.
Here's some help on the convicted criminal part:
LuvsThePack Jun 13, 4:02 p.m.
I have to prove this isn't about race? How does one go about proving a negative?
You asserted it was about race, with nothing to back that up. Tell me this: What are the races of the arresting officers. I bet even you don't even know if they are white or black or any shade in between.
You've lost this argument on every level: common sense, and legally. You have nothing. The sooner you stop digging, the sooner you can climb out of your hole. But the first step is to stop digging.
Lamborghini Mercy Jun 13, 3:54 p.m.
Depends on your perception of what is a judgment call. If its my home or a loved one, my judgement call is to approach him with my 9mm. In this case, he was on his property and not being a threat to anyone, so its HIS business.
LuvsThePack Jun 13, 3:53 p.m.
He doesn't have to prove he is a good person. He has to prove he belongs on a vacant property that records show is bank-owned due to foreclosure. If he chooses not to go the easy route (and you're right, he doesn't LEGALLY have to show papers without a warrant), then he faces arrest/detention. And that's what he got.
You're really arguing about nothing. No law was broken, and no rights were violated. He chose the route that they took, and they all took it.
mcase Jun 13, 3:51 p.m.
Although this entire story seems kind of silly and childish. My main concern is what legal right does a HOA have to foreclose on a property that doesn't belong to them. I think it is ridiculous that you buy a property and some else has the right to tell you what you can and can't do with it. The only party I feel should be able to foreclose on a property is the lien holder. What I have found in my 53 years of living is most hoa's consist of a bunch of nickel millionaires that think they are better than everybody else. That's all I've got to say on that subject..... I hope everyone has a great weekend and can we all just try to get along.
LuvsThePack Jun 13, 3:50 p.m.
Sorry that the rest of us not named Minarchist were born with a severe case of common sense.
All the police did was investigate something that was reasonably in need of investigation. He could have cooperated and saved all parties a lot of hassle. When he did not cooperate, the police had no choice but to arrest him in order to continue their very reasonable investigation.
Remember, the guy wasn't planting tomatoes in the front yard. HE WAS DRILLING THE LOCK OUT OF A PROPERTY KNOWN TO BE VACANT.
Lamborghini Mercy Jun 13, 3:50 p.m.
Gee, how many robbers you know are parking in the driveway and wasting several minutes breaking in through the front door with a drill, where at least 5-10 homes can see him in plain view? You obviously are NOT too familiar with home burglaries.
LuvsThePack Jun 13, 3:47 p.m.
You don't seem to have a problem with him being detained/arrested. Your problem seems to be with him being searched without a warrant.
My question to you is, where does the article state that he was searched, and more specifically, searched without a warrant?
It would seem your feathers are ruffled over an assumption you made about this arrest, one that you very well are wrong about.
Lamborghini Mercy Jun 13, 3:45 p.m.
Oh great, another "resident" with their rocker by the window... Good lord you people need a life! And since you have so much time to spy,and claim this isn't about race, please send a link of where a white person had the cops called on him for doing this... Don't worry, I won't wait.
LuvsThePack Jun 13, 3:43 p.m.
Google search "Godwin's Law". It applies here.
elkerster Jun 13, 3:39 p.m.
Depends on the bank and the terms of the loan. Some loans can't be assumed but some loans can be.
gotnoid Jun 13, 3:36 p.m.
Come on Mr. Browder! Please tell us the rest of the story.
Does he really own the property or did he just pay the HOA lien? Is he really a past convicted Criminal or just a or just a victim of mistreatment because of race.
The story created more questions and confusion that it resolves.
Did he Police create the issue here or did he
We need to know!
nufsaid Jun 13, 3:35 p.m.
You should be ashamed for using logic and common sense.
loj68 Jun 13, 3:35 p.m.
Simple. Drilling out your own lock is not unlawful. There may be many reasons to ask for an ID, but there the homeowner is under no obligation to produce it if he chooses not to. He is not even legally required to possess an ID of any kind at his home, let alone produce it while doing nothing wrong.
nufsaid Jun 13, 3:31 p.m.
The headline should have said "Man charged with breaking into foreclosed Wake Forest home he claimed he bought"
loj68 Jun 13, 3:29 p.m.
A homeowner is under no obligation to provide ID or proof of ownership in this case. His explanation should have been sufficient. If the police weren't satisfied, they could simply observe from a distance for anything more suspicious and act only if required. That could have avoided the entire situation while also avoiding any 4th amendment violations. As we now know, the homeowner was right so we need to look at how the police could have acted better, not how the homeowner needed to prove he belonged on his own property. The burden of proof in our system is founded on proving guilt, not defending innocence.
JustOneGodLessThanU Jun 13, 3:29 p.m.
I've seen your past posts...and your latest one is in line with those. (not a compliment) You clearly are not happy with his behavior (I'm not either, actually), but then you go on to mention his skin color. Why mention it?...if you're "not [trying] to be racist", that is.
Pepe Silvia Jun 13, 3:28 p.m.
Well for one thing... I use a KEY to get into the home I own.
Secondly, its not a recently vacant house and my neighbors actually know me and my vehicle.
Third, if I was trying to gain access to my own home for some reason without using a key - ie: trying to climb in through a window after accidentally locking myself out - and someone who didn't recognize me called police not only would I be THRILLED to have neighbors that actually watch out for each other but I'd happily show my drivers license to the police officer and then let them be on their way to deal with real problems.
rpd911 Jun 13, 3:28 p.m.
The real story here would be how a HOA could foreclose on a home that it has no title over and how it could go to auction without the banks involvement. Pretty sure WRAL should investigate this as it would seem a bigger issue. The Sovereign Citizen cases a few years ago come to mind with people thinking they can simply pay a few fines owed on the home and get ownership. Do a little more digging WRAL and be a real news source rather than a sounding board for political garbage all the time. The story makes it sound like the Earquhart guy did no wrong and the police are the bad guys.
LuvsThePack Jun 13, 3:22 p.m.
Key word: UNREASONABLE
This was a REASONABLE questioning. House was known to be vacant. Neighbor see drilling and calls 9-1-1. Cops come out and see it with their own eyes. They have every right under "reasonable suspicion" to investigate.
Check and mate.
LuvsThePack Jun 13, 3:19 p.m.
So in SOME cases, it is OK to make a judgment call. If a loved one's house had someone drilling their way in, you would want the cops to check them out. But since this happened to a stranger, you suddenly think his rights were violated.
rescuefan Jun 13, 3:15 p.m.
I believe if a title search is done on the property, the bank holding the mortgage will show up as a lienholder. The only reason he was able to get a deed is because this didn't go through a mortgage process so it appears that nobody did a title search to see if there were outstanding liens on the property. He won't be able to sell it until those liens are satisfied, unless the buyer pays cash and doesn't opt to do a title search, which would leave them holding the bag if they ever wanted to sell it.
Published: 2008-01-11 14:37:00
Updated: 2010-06-21 13:53:03