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  • Shamrock May 30, 2014

    I work in a tech business and many of my co-workers are former NC teachers. Not sure the current plan is the best, but we have to do something to get and maintain good teachers.

  • Olenc Native May 30, 2014
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    Man, the Finnish people must be outraged at all those taxes! Except their not. They're very satisfied with their education system and their government in general. The Finns LOVE! big government.

    http://www.oecd.org/gov/GAAG2013_CFS_FIN.pdf

  • btneast May 30, 2014

    Finland for example has free education (and luch) for all of its students from 3yo through University Nothing is "free".....the personal income tax rate in Finland is around 51%. That's just income tax.......there are lots of other taxes on top of that.

  • Wayne Rossignol May 30, 2014
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    As an educator, I resent the fact that you think can manipulate educators into being drawn in to your scheme to "try" to make yourself and collegues look good to the people of NC. I refuse to accept a raise under the conditions you propose. Cutting funds from Medicare/Medicad and then eliminating TA's from the classroom. Seriously now..... What will happen to teachers who are on the upper end of the scale after a year or two? FIRED! Your scheme will not work. SHAME ON YOU and all your republican legislators.

  • Terry Watts May 29, 2014
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    I would agree that there is disfunction is our current system and that we should emulate the better education systems used by the countries ahead of us in the Study.

    Most of those have a MORE "socialized" system of education. Finland for example has free education (and luch) for all of its students from 3yo through University. China has increased funding to their education system by 20% since 1999. In fact, most if not all of the systems that are better than ours are government run and funded systems.

    I think the larger issue with US schools failing has to do without the low regard some people have for the public education system, whether they be low-income students from parent-less homes or otherwise... YMMV...

  • miseem May 29, 2014

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    Right. Then the GOP froze everything. I can't believe you can make a statement like that in the face of overwhelming evidence that NC was in the middle of the pack pay wise just a few years ago. After 4 years of GOP control, we are 46th. How are the Dems responsible for that?

  • aggie May 29, 2014

    The legislatures are removing the privilege tax from cities, taking money back from schools and adding to teachers salaries by removing assistants. Then they say that the school systems should fund the essential assistants. Schools get the funding from the state and counties they are in. Now the state is asking for money back and stopping a revenue source for the counties to help. I really would like to know how many of their kids are in the public school system. Must not be many.

  • sisu May 29, 2014

    One of the weaknesses that we Americans have is that we think having become a "civilized" society that we are destined to remain one. If you think back over the thousands of years of history you will realize that a state of relative equality regarding human rights is pretty unique.

    We should all realize that being treated as equally valuable human beings, can, in fact, be dissolved. It is already happening. What makes people think we can't have a caste system in America? If you have the wealth, the lobbyist, the power... any such thing is possible.

    Destroying public education is a vital step in transforming this country from a land of opportunity to a playground for opportunists. If you think the Constitution will protect us you will find yourself disillusioned. Judges protect the Constitution. If we can have Citizen's United... if corporations are people... then people will surely lose their standing.

  • Brandon Parrish May 29, 2014
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    So i am in a non teaching maintence position and haven t gotten a raise in seven years.....what am i getting??......way less than 11 percent.....schools have to have support positions or maybe teachers want to do that work too......only wish i could mak. 31000 a year for 10 months of work.......try working 12 months for close to 21000 and feed your family!!!!!

  • tatermommy52 May 29, 2014

    Democrats have been paying educators what they thought they were worth.

  • Maurice Pentico Jr. May 29, 2014
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    Still far more than the rest of the world... including salary... and testing is still low... THATS WHY! You really believe money is going to solve all the problems with public education? If so, elect officials willing to double property taxes on everyone. Good luck.

  • stymieindurham May 29, 2014

    so I am not looking at this from a tainted and biased political perspective. The current NC leadership from the Gov's office to the Legislature literally make this a bigger and bigger "MESS" every day.
    ===============================================
    REALLY?!!! Not biased???

  • Pensive01 May 29, 2014

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    Let's see, that figure you are always throwing out about where you compare US spending to what other countries spend is entirely useless, because it doesn't even begin to address what NC spends per student. Now if you want to compare what NC spends compared to other countries, then by all means have at it. I'll tell you now though that NC is going to look pretty bad by comparison, because out of all the countries that the OECD lists in their ranking the only countries that spend less than NC are Turkey, Mexico, Argentina, Brazil and Chile. I will mention that NC comes off just a hair better when compared to the other 49 states in the US, though being ranked 43rd is still pretty bad. Makes it rather obvious that NC's spending is nowhere near what the US average is, which begs the question of just why you keep tossing out the US figure in the first place.

  • Gunny the Racist May 29, 2014

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    ok, so how many teachers are there in this state? how many legislators? I'm not a math major, but I just don't see where this would make any difference, unless you're talking about them cutting money from every staff member, or every other state employee. How about maybe they just take a few more hundred from you each month and lets see how many teachers can get raises from that.

  • Bill Brasky May 29, 2014

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    Think you got your millions mixed up with your billions.

  • sabsco May 29, 2014

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    If you voted for these guys then don't complain about taxes.

  • Fanny Chmelar May 29, 2014
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    And the replacements are....?

  • "Screen Name-8/20" May 29, 2014

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    -

    Not that I'm doubting you, but would love to see the actual facts on that to see what "most countries"

  • "Screen Name-8/20" May 29, 2014

    Gee, just once, I'd love to see a headline that says,
    "Legislators decide to cut their own pay and expense budgets in lieu of cutting school budgets"
    sigh

  • Olenc Native May 29, 2014
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    I'm not sure that we do have more administrators, but I'd be happy to read any source you can provide.

    To be honest, I think we need more administrators. People who are very concerned with 'due process' for teachers should be in favor for doubling the number of principals in a school so they are able to spend more time in the classroom, monitoring teacher performance.

  • Clayton Mack May 29, 2014
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    Ditto.. I left the classroom in 2000. I will always advocate for and support those still in the public education system.

    Signed,
    --Former NC Teaching Fellow

  • Greg Boop May 29, 2014
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    Actually by law most children with disabilities must be mainstreamed. Only those with the most severe disabilities are put into separate schools. The presence of a significant number of disabled children in regular classrooms is a significant issue during the past decade because many times these children disrupt the class and also require additional care.

  • AppStgrad May 29, 2014

    So what happens if tons of teachers give up their tenure for a raise? Will teachers then be contract employees? Will that mean no more health insurance, retirement, or sick days? What is behind this intense desire of some to get rid of career status? I mean besides the obvious, they don't understand what what career status REALLY means and just choose to continue with their ignorant belief of what it is....

  • Ernest Borgnine May 29, 2014
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    You cannot satisfy liberals lust for money and power.Um... You mean democrats. Liberal is not a bad word. There are a lot of liberal Republicans who are veterans like me. But, you probably mean democrats. Yeah, democrats will spend you right outta house and home. Then again, lowering tax rates for millionaires never sounded like a good idea to me anyway.Yeah we should probably raise taxes on millionaires. Otherwise those kids will grow up and visit those millionaires with axes and other things because they were not taught any better.

  • Fenway O'Donnell May 29, 2014
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    I believe TAs are needed in elementary schools. Sadly, too many kids come to school with little-to-no parental instruction available at the house. TAs are needed to help get these kids on-track.

    I am a conservative, but I do believe we need to pay our teachers more. That said, discipline kids need to be sent home if they will not study. Time for parents (and I am one) to step up and take care of the kids.

  • Olenc Native May 29, 2014
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    In most countries students with disabilities are not maintreamed. In most countries there is no school funding for sports or music.

  • Objective Scientist May 29, 2014

    Not currently a K-12 teacher in NC... I once was, decades ago, and I have followed education "issues" since that time. What has gone on over the past couple of years, and what is currently being done to teachers and the teaching profession in NC is unconscionable!!! Politically I am a very VERY INDEPENDENT independent, so I am not looking at this from a tainted and biased political perspective. The current NC leadership from the Gov's office to the Legislature literally make this a bigger and bigger "MESS" every day! IMO - Bev Perdue may be one of, if not THE, worse Govenor's NC has ever had... but at this point, McCrory is no better. And the NC Gen. Assembly Republican leaders were clearly hell-bent on exacting their revenge and retaliation on NC teachers for the teachers as a group having supported-voted for Democrats for decades. In that the Republican leadership has succeeded. They have truly eviscerated the teaching profession in NC! The "MESS" gets deeper each day!

  • tracmister May 29, 2014

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    You forgot that in most countries if you disrupt the educational system, the child is booted out. In most countries, the first person to go if a school fails is the principle.

  • lec02572 May 29, 2014

    btneast The right to "due process" is about all the teachers have. Having seen a 40% increase in teachers leaving NC or the profession during the school year this year, just wait until the end of the school year and see how many leave. When neighboring states paying more, offering better benefits, they will leave. With shool systems like those in TX (Houston) running ads stating their starting salaries with "NO" state tax. If I were a young teacher I'd be gone. I am not a teacher, but my dauther is and she along with many other teachers are just beat down by the politics of education. She must love teaching, because it is not worth it in North Carolina.

  • rushbot May 29, 2014

    i have watched my two youngest children benefit from teaching assistants...their teachers can plan out and execute their plans without standing in line to make copies on copy machines....every successful business with which i am familiar follows the notion of "leveraging the talent"....secretaries and clerical staff exist so that the "talent", be it scientist, lawyer, doctor, salesperson, mechanic, or whomever does not have to spend their time answering the phone or doing routine paperwork.............it is amazing that the supposedly pro-business nc gop would never have heard of such a concept or worse still, have heard of the concept and not want to apply it to education!!!!!

  • Fanny Chmelar May 29, 2014
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    Playing the shell game with tax revenue isn't really a solution.

  • John Weston May 29, 2014
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    I've done contract work before and wouldn't like those at all. Would you please address why we have far more administrators than we have had historically, many if not most making six figures. Where is the money better spent? With them or in the classrooms and on teachers? There are only so many dollars.

  • Clayton Mack May 29, 2014
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    With excellent reviews a state employee can apply for a job at a different agency and negotiate for a higher salary. A teacher could conceivably apply for a job in another 'county' and make less salary because they are locked into the state schedule; especially if they move from a wealthy district to a less wealthy district.

    This is an uneven argument at best, and an illogical one at worst. I wish folks would quit making this straw argument as if it fits.

  • Olenc Native May 29, 2014
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    Would you become a 10-month contract employee? Would you give up unemployment payments? (Because if you're a contract employee, there's no unemployment if you lose you're job...)

    Weigh the costs yourself.

  • juliomercado May 29, 2014

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    Simple, the rest of the working world doesn't face firing for doing their job. School Board member's child receives a failing grade and that teacher is gone. Nepotism and political firings are already rampant in NC schools. Those teachers with tenure have some defense. Well, had some defense.

  • "Screen Name-8/20" May 29, 2014

    Since NC is ALREADY so low in the education ranking throughout the US, how about they cut their own salaries or benefits instead of cutting education's budget.
    How about laying off some of the unnecessary state workers hired for no other reason than nepotism or campaign pay-backs?
    Once again, McCrory (whom I voted for - ONCE with great hopes), declares war on the youngest and some of the neediest in the state, instead of going after fat cats.
    I hope he has plans for after this term in office, because I certainly won't waste another vote on him for a second term.

  • John Weston May 29, 2014
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    Are the rest of us state workers who also haven't had a meaningful raise in seven years getting the same deal? Nope. I'd be glad to give up tenure for a ten or eleven percent raise but I never had tenure to start with. Do we deserve less? Why don't I ever hear you guys, or the politicians for that matter, talking about cutting all the fat out of administration as a way to free up money for the classrooms?

  • Theo Bishop May 29, 2014
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    If the (Republicans) would have left the school systems alone and not lifted the caps for charter schools to take money away from the public schools we would not be in this mess and people would not have to worry about keeping thier jobs.

  • Jackson Smith May 29, 2014
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    Looks to me like the GA has just actually cut the spending on education in overall. I am amazed at teh gall of these folks to say don't ask for the details of where the money comes from (sen. Tillman). Sure we will trust you. I trust that you are a hypocrite and not totally honest. I take that back. You are not honest at all.

  • miseem May 29, 2014

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    At least the lottery is a voluntary tax. Eliminating the lottery will result in either further degrading the public education system or a tax increase. Which do you prefer?

  • lcjacobs777 May 29, 2014

    Budgets whether at home or on a government level require difficult decisions, especially when a budget has been allowed to be non-existent for a number of years. Eventually the hard decisions have to be made with the idea that as income increases and expenditures decrease some of the decisions can be reworked.

  • Norman Lewis May 29, 2014
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    As usual, the legislators "project" they will have whatever they need to have happen to make their plans work whether it be fewer students as in this article, which is of course nonsense, or lower costs from operations or whatever imaginary savings they can cook up. There is no need to plan realistically since the taxpayers will soak up whatever shortfall there is and no one pays the price for mismanagement. It is shameful and foolish that North Carolina does not pay the professionals that provide one of the most important services, teaching our children, that exists. I bet the legislators and the upper level school administrators get paid quite well compared to the ones that actually do the work.

  • Jackson Smith May 29, 2014
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    There are not enough text books for each child to have one in the high schools. They are also very outdated and falling apart. Several that I have seen were held together by duct tape. Just one of many examples. But you asked.

  • btneast May 29, 2014

    [bMost of the teachers that I've talked with will not give up tenure (a right to due process only)][/b]The rest of the working world doesn't have tenure of any type, why should teachers be any different?

  • miseem May 29, 2014

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    Lots of people state they had up to 40 students in their classes growing up. I must have been fortunate. I attended public schools in NC and Maryland around the 1960's and don't recall any classes that size, or even 30 kids. And while I do agree that discipline and behavior was much tighter then than now, effective teachers can go a long way in controlling the classroom. And despite the comments of a lot of people here, most teachers are effective. But the ones that will work for pennies for years on end generally are not.

  • Olenc Native May 29, 2014
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    The NCGA could afford to pay for teacher raises if they rolled back the 2% cut to state income tax. The are fiscally irresponsible.

  • Maurice Pentico Jr. May 29, 2014
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    Lets see.... the US spends the most per student than any other industrialized nation... yet testing scores are significantly lower. Why? Graduation rates are dismal, when you look at the total number of failed students... then take into account the number of graduated students that can not functionally read, write or do simple math. This alone shows serious brokenness. Further, the "value" of education is not grasped by either parents or children, and hence school is little more than a daycare for most.

    Until schools must actually compete for students/funding, poor performance from both teachers, parents and students will continue.

  • George George May 29, 2014
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    "Pay your taxes you greedy rich folks. It is about making a better world for all of us." SMDRN
    Pardon me but it is NOT about the rich not paying their taxes, the issue is about the derelicts not paying ANYTHING.

  • btneast May 29, 2014

    [bThe only way I can see this working is by breaking classrooms down to much smaller sizes with out the aid to TAs.][/b] TA's? When did TA's become a standard fixture anyway? My teachers in elementary school had no TA's....this was in the 60's. Our class size was in the high 20's to low 30's.

  • jackaroe123 May 29, 2014

    Translation: "Hey, see what these greedy teachers made us do?"

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