This story is closed for comments.

Oldest First
  • dsmith77 Nov 6, 4:24 p.m.

    Re: JCParent: "Local school districts should decide what they think is adequate for their own districts. If there is an advantage to more funding, those districts will benefit and others will see and follow."

    You don't seem to understand how schools are funded. A local school district can't just incorporate and make bazillions of dollars. There are federal pots of money that school districts can apply for and receive, state funds, local funds, grants, etc. Each pot of money has different restrictions on it. Local school systems cannot pay teachers from money designated for maintenance for example.

    And don't get me started about our laughably-inept and corrupt state lottery. The way the legislation was implemented, only the largest districts truly benefit. First, 40% comes off the top for management. The remaining 60% is shared. My rural county only receives about 75% of the money the locals contribute. Where does the other 25% go? You might ask Charlotte-Mecklenburg... ( >110%)

  • joycejunior Nov 6, 2:38 p.m.

    Billfisher-"They get two months in the summer, a week in the spring, two weeks at Christmas and several holidays during the year. They work 9 months."

    LOL. Every job that I know of gives their employees time off. I happen to get 3 weeks of vacation after 10 years. Plus some holidays. Does that mean I only work 11 months? Does that justify paying our teachers the worst in the entire nation?

  • Plenty Coups Nov 6, 2:29 p.m.

    Billfisher-"we've been down this path before. They get two months in the summer, a week in the spring, two weeks at Christmas and several holidays during the year. They work 9 months."

    Yes, we've been down this path before. You don't seem to get that the 2 months off in the summer are UNPAID. Like being laid off for 2 months every year. Their vacation time each year is similar to other professions only teachers don't get to choose what days to take. The approximately 3 weeks they get off for holidays and vacation is in line with other professions and so if you're going to knock off a month of work for the approx. 3 weeks off, then you should also do it for other professions. According to Bureau of Labor data, most professions give from 15 to 24 days off after 5 years of service. Even allowing for the 2 months off, the pay still trails far behind other professions that require the same education. You always ignore this w/ your faulty comparisons.

  • krimson Nov 6, 1:24 p.m.

    BillF: "Would you expect less pay if you worked four 10hour days as compared to five 8hour days???" tatts1000

    "I would expect to get paid less if I worked 9 months rather than 12"

    That's awesome! Tell your boss that you will do the 12mon worth of work in 9mon. I'm sure he'll be happy to ax 3 months off your salary and lay you off for that time...

  • Billfisher Nov 6, 12:44 p.m.

    Would you expect less pay if you worked four 10hour days as compared to five 8hour days???
    tatts1000

    I would expect to get paid less if I worked 9 months rather than 12.

    The teachers in NC who work "10 months a year, not 9",
    Plenty Coups

    we've been down this path before. They get two months in the summer, a week in the spring, two weeks at Christmas and several holidays during the year. They work 9 months.

  • krimson Nov 5, 3:25 p.m.

    "How much should a teacher get paid for working 9 months a year?"

    Would you expect less pay if you worked four 10hour days as compared to five 8hour days???

  • Plenty Coups Nov 5, 3:18 p.m.

    "How much should a teacher get paid for working 9 months a year?"

    The teachers in NC who work "10 months a year, not 9", would probably be satisfied with the state giving them pay/benefits that were at least something close to the national average. That would mean around a 10 thousand dollar raise.

  • Billfisher Nov 5, 2:59 p.m.

    How much should a teacher get paid for working 9 months a year?

  • mexicousacanada Nov 5, 2:46 p.m.

    You can talk about anything you want, giving us your points of view about this issue' but it will never be logic that a School Teacher who needs a Bachelor Degree, and certifications by county, and States and even that they make less money that the guy who painted my house last week and he didn't finish High School. Something is terrible wrong, really wrong !!!

  • nstobias Nov 5, 1:35 p.m.

    The statistics don't lie. Young voters educated in our public schools are voting more and more for democrats than republicans. The hardcore conservatives in our state believe that public schools are deliberately educating students toward liberal ideologies. Hence, private school vouchers, more charter school funding, defunding of traditional public education and early education programs. Don't be fooled, our lawmakers know exactly what they’re doing. Look at redistricting, voter ID laws, education policies, campaign financing. It’s all an attempt to manipulate votes.

  • Plenty Coups Nov 5, 1:15 p.m.

    "COUNT ME IN! I won't complain either." johnnyplusthree"

    Your welcome to join the ranks. See you in about four years after(if) you get accepted into college. Oh yeah, better start saving up your pennies to pay that tuition.

  • Plenty Coups Nov 5, 1:13 p.m.

    chris42-"You still didn't answer the question (as usual); how much is enough?"

    I'm never shy at answering this. I'd boost funding to at LEAST the national average in per pupil spending.

    "Currently, education receives 51% of the state general fund."

    A percentage that means little as education funding is paid largely by the state by the directives in our state constitution. A better measurement is per pupil spending and in this we're a ridiculous 48th in the nation. Republicans don't like this fact publicized but its an embarrassing truth that they are ignoring.

    "If you added all of the monies from all of the items that you suggested , you could give every teacher about 10 bucks as a one time gift."

    Not true. Not even close. The tax cuts last year are budgeted to cost 500 million by themselves. That alone could give every teacher over a $5000 raise.(97,000 teachers) Then there was the previous penny sales tax cut that could have provided an additional 700 million.

  • Plenty Coups Nov 5, 12:14 p.m.

    JCParent-"If teachers are paid too little, we wouldn't be able to find enough teachers to hire, and would have to increase salaries."

    Attracting any warm body isn't the same as attracting top quality. At my children's school, teacher turnover has been very high. We just lost our best teacher who went to go sell cars. There are shortages already in the hard to fill teaching jobs such as special ed., math, and science. Especially top notch candidates. We'll be feeling the effects years from now as quality college graduates choose other professions.

    "Funding per student does not appear to be correlated with student performance (see DC)."

    Wrong. Trying to compare one inner city district with all school districts is dishonest at best. Actual data shows a strong and undeniable correlation with states that spend the most getting the best results.

    http://www.nationaljournal.com/thenextamerica/education/analysis-how-much-states-spend-on-their-kids-really-does-matter-20121016

  • JCParent Nov 5, 11:55 a.m.

    If teachers are paid too little, we wouldn't be able to find enough teachers to hire, and would have to increase salaries. If the teachers are paid an attractive salary, more people will become teachers, or teachers will relocate to NC, until jobs are scarce. I haven't seen a lot of openings for new teachers.
    Funding per student does not appear to be correlated with student performance (see DC). Local school districts should decide what they think is adequate for their own districts. If there is an advantage to more funding, those districts will benefit and others will see and follow.

  • mediawatcher Nov 5, 11:47 a.m.

    "I taught at the college level and yes I plan to teach when I retire. It is a great pie job. Do nothing and get great benefits, plus work on 10 months a year and get every other day off, teacher work days, etc. COUNT ME IN! I won't complain either. johnnyplusthree"

    You cannot compare teaching adults in a college to teaching children in public schools. It's a completely different world. As for public school teaching being a pie job, well come back after you retire and start actually doing it and see if you feel the same way. I have a family member who teaches in elementary school and she works long hours at school and additional hours at home at night. It is far from being a pie job. Your post is a prime example of someone who doesn't have any idea of what the job really is. But let's not let facts get in way of opinions.

  • westernwake1 Nov 5, 11:23 a.m.

    "yes you are right and we agree. We do need 20,000 teachers a year. You need to learn math. We graduate about 28000 a year and need 20,000 a year. Wow, look at that 28000-20000 = 8000 a year surplus. It is amazing what a education can do for you." - johnnyplusthree

    First let me say that your number for the total number of North Carolina teaching graduates is incorrect, but I will let you google this for yourself.

    You are aware that over 40% of North Carolina teaching degree graduates immediately leave the state in recent years. All the neighboring states offer $10K more in starting pay.

    When looking at the teaching graduates in the top 10% of their college class the percentage leaving the state is over 70%.

  • A Libertarian Nov 5, 10:42 a.m.

    mediawatcher - I taught at the college level and yes I plan to teach when I retire. It is a great pie job. Do nothing and get great benefits, plus work on 10 months a year and get every other day off, teacher work days, etc. COUNT ME IN! I won't complain either.

  • Bill Brasky Nov 5, 10:20 a.m.

    "Bill - yes you are right and we agree. We do need 20,000 teachers a year. You need to learn math. We graduate about 28000 a year and need 20,000 a year. Wow, look at that 28000-20000 = 8000 a year surplus. It is amazing what a education can do for you."

    Johnnyplusthree, you need to read the article again. Reading is fundamental.

    "The current need for teachers is not being met"
    www.cfnc.org/career/teacherEd/teacher.jsp

    This added to with teachers leaving the profession, or moving to neighboring states is going to be a major problem in NC. Not to mention the current teacher shortage in NC that you choose to ignore.

  • dirtydozen431 Nov 5, 10:20 a.m.

    The NEA is a national teachers union and every member of the NCAE is a adjunct member of the NEA.

  • tatermommy52 Nov 5, 10:16 a.m.

    The upper echelon of the NCAE received a 24% raise during the last several years.

  • tatermommy52 Nov 5, 10:15 a.m.

    The NEA and its local affiliates like the NCAE are the highest political donors.

  • mediawatcher Nov 5, 10:11 a.m.

    How many people here in this forum who are ridiculing teachers are (1) qualified to be a teacher, and (2) willing to do the job under the present day conditions and pay? I'm guessing there are none.

  • tatermommy52 Nov 5, 10:09 a.m.

    The NCAE is not a union by their definition. It takes in about 11 million dollars per year in revenue from its members at $350.00 per year in annual dues. The NCAE has about 135 employees at an average salary of $58,000.00 per year which is more than a teacher makes. The executive director makes in excess of $220,000.00 per year. The NCAE members are members of the NEA which is a national teachers union. Part of the NCAE dues pay for the NEA membership.

  • Bill Brasky Nov 5, 9:50 a.m.

    "the left is told what to say. Yes NCAE is a union. Any dictionary in existence defines it as one. People educate yourself. I do not care one way or another, but it is like talking to robots."

    Johnnyplusthree, you get corrected on this point every time there is an article about NC teachers. Then you disapear, only to reappear several days later stating the exact same thing on a new article about NC teachers. Its almost like you don't care about facts, just scoring cheap political points.

    Here is the full definition of Labor Union...Notice "Collective Bargaining" its actually highlighted in the definition.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/labor+union

  • westernwake1 Nov 5, 9:39 a.m.

    "Yes NCAE is a union. Any dictionary in existence defines it as one. People educate yourself. I do not care one way or another, but it is like talking to robots. You refuse to educate yourselves. Just because the left tells you something, does not make it true." - johnnyplusthree

    This must be an attempt at humor because even the most uneducated will recognize that it is not factual.

    By law in the U.S. for an organization to be considered a union it must have collective bargaining rights for its members - otherwise it does not meet the federal or state legal definition of a union.

  • ultraviolet Nov 5, 9:36 a.m.

    "It's WHINING, not WHINNING. And teachers aren't whining. They are stating facts. Walk a mile in their shoes, then talk. Until then, consider spellcheck, or even better, ask a teacher how to spell."
    -damauro

    Love that^

    I can't believe all the posts against this current state teachers are in. How can people not realize that the excellent teachers will be/are leaving this state?!? Remember quality of education is in direct relation to property values. Just look at Western Wake in Cary!
    I have 4 kids in the WCPSS. I support the teachers 100%!

    Maybe parents should keep kids home for a day in support! Nah, never mind, that would just result in less funding to the schools. BUT it would get attention with out accusing teachers of "WHINING"!

  • Bill Brasky Nov 5, 9:34 a.m.

    "NCAE is a union. They just don't have collective bargaining or strike authority due to NC public employee statutes."

    They are a lobbying group that represents teachers, they hold no collective bargaining abilities, which is the definition of a Labor Union. If they did, this would make them illegal in NC.

  • A Libertarian Nov 5, 9:32 a.m.

    According to the college foundation of NC there is a teacher shortage. In fact the state needs at a min 20k teachers a year to keep up with future growth.

    Bill - yes you are right and we agree. We do need 20,000 teachers a year. You need to learn math. We graduate about 28000 a year and need 20,000 a year.
    Wow, look at that 28000-20000 = 8000 a year surplus. It is amazing what a education can do for you.

  • A Libertarian Nov 5, 9:25 a.m.

    Bill - obviously you make up stuff. I gave you three links, yet you just make up stuff with no links or reference. I do not care if you know what a union is. We laugh at you and the rest of the uneducated as you quote talking points and no individual thought.

  • krimson Nov 5, 9:24 a.m.

    So were Berger's fears, that strangers would watching children, manifest itself in any way? Or was it just fear-mongering and hysteria on his part???

  • Bill Brasky Nov 5, 9:19 a.m.

    "Bill, first the teachers do have a union"

    There is no union in NC. This has been discussed at least 10 times on this forum alone. Please feel free to dig through the comments.

    "20,000 teacher grads last year in NC that could not find a position"

    According to the college foundation of NC there is a teacher shortage. In fact the state needs at a min 20k teachers a year to keep up with future growth.

    www.cfnc.org/career/teacherEd/teacher.jsp

    Johnnyplusthree

    You have been corrected over and over again about using the full definition of Labor Union and not leaving out key sentences. For example, your link clearly states "an organization of wage earners or salaried employees for mutual aid and protection and "dealing collectively" with employers."

    You seem to have skipped that part of the definition.

  • chris42m Nov 5, 9:03 a.m.

    There always seems to be plenty of money for GOP priorities. Like raises for campaign staff workers, voter IDs, tax cuts that benefit the wealthy, and private school vouchers. I'd start right there. - Plenty Coups

    You still didn't answer the question (as usual); how much is enough? Currently, education receives 51% of the state general fund. That also does not include the lottery money, the county monies from bond issues, federal monies, and grants.

    If you added all of the monies from all of the items that you suggested , you could give every teacher about 10 bucks as a one time gift. Do you want the entire general fund to go to education? Is that it? Is it your suggestion that we just throw money at this without accountability or responsibility and it will fix everything? That has been tried. Under Easley and Perdue, DPI spent 5 years developing a program called NCWise that flopped and was finally cancelled, but not before they spent about 800 million on it.

  • A Libertarian Nov 5, 9:02 a.m.

    foodstamp - the left is told what to say. Yes NCAE is a union. Any dictionary in existence defines it as one. People educate yourself. I do not care one way or another, but it is like talking to robots. You refuse to educate yourselves. Just because the left tells you something, does not make it true.

  • foodstamptrader Nov 5, 8:54 a.m.

    "There isn't a teacher's UNION in the state oF N. C.!!" - NuGamma

    NCAE is a union. They just don't have collective bargaining or strike authority due to NC public employee statutes.

    They are voluntary and they collect dues. In fact, the state collects for them (at least they use to - I know there was an effort to get the state out of the union dues collecting business.)

  • A Libertarian Nov 5, 8:52 a.m.

    labor union
    noun

    : an organization of workers formed to protect the rights and interests of its members
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/labor%20union

    Lets See - every dictionary in existence defines NCAE as a union - but the liberal talking points say to make up your own meaning. Education is great isn't it!

  • A Libertarian Nov 5, 8:51 a.m.

    For the left who is told what to say.

    labor union

    Houghton Mifflin

    n.noun
    1.
    An organization of wage earners formed for the purpose of serving the members' interests with respect to wages and working conditions
    http://dictionary.search.yahoo.com/search?p=labor%20union

  • foodstamptrader Nov 5, 8:47 a.m.

    "Megan Busick is a teacher at the school.
    "I feel like a pot of boiling water. I've gotten to that point where I'm at a rapid boil and the froth is building, and if I don't get there quick, I'm going to overflow.""

    Wow, wouldn't you like to have Megan teaching your child and running a classroom of impressionable kids? NCAE in action. sheesh...

  • A Libertarian Nov 5, 8:39 a.m.

    Bill, first the teachers do have a union. Not sure why the left does not know what defines a union. Just because it is a right to work state does not mean there are no union. There are about 450 unions in NC. I suppose you want to take away the right to work and force people to pay a union boss to work in a specific job. The next untruth you on the left quote, there is a teacher shortage. Wrong again, there was over 20,000 teacher grads last year in NC that could NOT find a position. Maybe we do need new blood. These young teachers really want a job. So, I agree, if you do not care to teach, please leave. See we agree on something.

  • jackaroe123 Nov 5, 8:37 a.m.

    "STOP WHINNING AND GET TO WORK"

    We walked IN and did get to work. There wasn't one minute of instructional time lost to this walk-in at my school.

    How long before you erroneously accuse teachers of not whinning (sic) enough when Gov Perdue was in office?

  • Bill Brasky Nov 5, 8:27 a.m.

    "Fire them!!!"

    You're not the first person to state this on this forum. The problem is who will replace them? Teachers are now leaving this state to work as teachers in neighboring states that pay 10k+ for the same position. The state knows they can't fire them because they have no one qualified to replace them since no one is crazy enough to accept such a low paying high stress job.

    Perhaps its time for NC teachers to legally have a union.

  • heel59 Nov 4, 7:59 p.m.

    Fire them!!!

  • rushbot Nov 4, 7:57 p.m.

    "You are aware that the the pension plan for state employees and teachers is funded out of their own paychecks and not from the state. ============================================================ ===

    Are you saying the state does not match, contribute to, nor offer ANYTHING (even tax breaks) towards their retirement?
    stymieindurham
    November 4, 2013 7:12 p.m." ....sir or ma'am, any matching of retirement funding is part of an employee's total compensation package..just like group health insurance..and vacation sick and holiday time off..all part of the total compensation package..

  • westernwake1 Nov 4, 7:54 p.m.

    "westernwake1 - You are wrong. Check your facts. Employees contribute 6%, while the Employers also contribute 6%." - workingfortheweekend

    I looked it up on the state osc website as per the PDFs defining the plans. "Section A of this note describes the seven defined
    benefit public employee retirement plans and one defined
    contribution plan administered by the State. The remaining
    plans, described in Note 12, are defined contribution plans
    administered by a third party under the auspices of the State.
    The State may or may not make supplementary contributions
    to these plans."

    The state may make a contribution each year based on actuarial table calculations if a shortfall is detected. This amount has varied between 0% to 10.75% each year over the past decades. Usually the amount is close to zero - for example in 2003/2004 the state contributed 0.22%.

    http://www.osc.nc.gov/financial/04_cafr/2004nt11.pdf

  • teacher56 Nov 4, 7:52 p.m.

    Education is a sad state of affairs in N.C. Walking in or out will not have too much of an effect. We definitely do need to unionize in this state. But that is not an option at this time. The only thing we can do is complain and/or leave for greener pastures in other states.

  • NoMoreOfThat Nov 4, 7:48 p.m.

    "Well, I'm sorry to hear the NCAE is not a union. I always thought they were."

    And we wonder why the country is in the shape it's in. The uninformed voter is killing us.

    It's not your fault, you only know what the media tells you and they are good at controlling the message.

  • larlar515 Nov 4, 7:47 p.m.

    Made in the USA
    "I wish I could "protest" the fact that I have not received a pay raise in 5 years, and also have had my pay CUT nearly 40% during the same period of time.
    My advise to the educators... get on your knees and be thankful you have a job."

    It sounds like to me you made a much higher wage than a teacher did 5 years ago. You are still able to make a living off of 60% of your salary??? If you took 40% of a teachers salary their pay would drop to 18k a year for teachers with 0-8 years of experience.

    Put things into persecutive please.

  • Bill Brasky Nov 4, 7:46 p.m.

    " You are wrong. Check your facts. Employees contribute 6%, while the Employers also contribute 6%."

    Nope, the public school system does not match.

  • taylor3297 Nov 4, 7:44 p.m.

    westernwake1 - You are wrong. Check your facts. Employees contribute 6%, while the Employers also contribute 6%.

    No matching occurs until the teacher is vested, which is after 10 years.

  • workingfortheweekend Nov 4, 7:29 p.m.

    westernwake1 - You are wrong. Check your facts. Employees contribute 6%, while the Employers also contribute 6%.

  • stymieindurham Nov 4, 7:14 p.m.

    Well, I'm sorry to hear the NCAE is not a union. I always thought they were. I have been corrected. By the way, do teachers pay dues to them???

Oldest First