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  • Plenty Coups Aug 30, 5:49 p.m.

    "Part of what drives the average up is the much higher pay of teachers in areas that are a lot more expensive to live in...."

    And part of what drives teacher pay average down is the lesser pay of teachers in areas that are cheaper to live in. Central and western NY for example, is cheaper to live in than the Triangle area.

  • Plenty Coups Aug 30, 5:46 p.m.

    "I'll be leaving at the end of the year. I'm a teacher of the year in my county. I'll finish my master's degree in science and, with a heavy heart, head north"

    Sadly, you're not the only one. My school has had over 50% turnover this year and last year. The teachers are fed up.

  • Plenty Coups Aug 30, 5:45 p.m.

    lweaton-"This entire discussion is bogus:
    http://lockerroom.johnlocke.org/2013/08/29/wral-on-teacher-turnover/"

    Your first mistake is believing anything the Art Pope financed John Locke Foundation says. All they want to do is mislead as part of their anti-tax plan. Terry Stoops gets paid to try and imply that teachers are well paid and happy. It's absolutely ridiculous. Why is he wrong? First of all, the data is from the 2011-2012 year. Way before the General Assembly chose to end Masters pay, end tenure, and keep pay frozen for yet another year. Second of all, the rate of teachers leaving increased from 2010-2011. Third of all, teachers don't get asked if pay factors into their decision to leave but it does.

    "There aren't anymore teachers leaving than there usually are."

    Wrong. Somehow you must know something that the school leaders don't, huh? We're talking about the 2012-2103 session. Not 2 years ago.

  • GretchenB Aug 30, 5:22 p.m.

    I'll be leaving at the end of the year. I'm a teacher of the year in my county. I'll finish my master's degree in science and, with a heavy heart, head north. I'm a single Mom and I need to know that my future includes being able to put oil in my furnace and buy my kids shoes.

  • Objective Scientist Aug 30, 4:47 p.m.

    "Teachers have a great gig.

    They are part time employees who work 9 months a year and get paid for 12 months a year along with having all of the benefits of a full time employee including a state paid pension when they retire.

    Shame most of us can't get such a sweet deal at the expense of the taxpayers." - a recent post/comment.

    Those statements could only - ONLY - come from complete and utter IGNORANCE of teaching. EVERYTHING in those statements is INCORRECT and demonstrates a complete lack of knowledge and understanding of teaching!

  • ConservativeVoter Aug 30, 3:42 p.m.

    Teachers have a great gig.

    They are part time employees who work 9 months a year and get paid for 12 months a year along with having all of the benefits of a full time employee including a state paid pension when they retire.

    Shame most of us can't get such a sweet deal at the expense of the taxpayers.

  • btneast Aug 30, 3:18 p.m.

    Ummm, that's the national average, not what California or New York pays, which is much higher...

    Really! No kidding......I know it is a national average......my point is to reflect the pay of teachers in buying power, not gross dollars. Part of what drives the average up is the much higher pay of teachers in areas that are a lot more expensive to live in.....so their relative buying power may be no more than a teacher with less pay from a cheaper area to live in. If ALL of the teachers figured into this "average" all lived in the same area, THEN it would be accurate .

  • lweaton Aug 30, 12:58 p.m.

    This entire discussion is bogus:

    http://lockerroom.johnlocke.org/2013/08/29/wral-on-teacher-turnover/

    There aren't anymore teachers leaving than there usually are.

    It's just that the WRAL, in an effort to stir the pot, found a few people who are not content; as if that doesn't happen in every job situation.

    People are getting tired of teachers acting like they are the only ones with hard, responsible jobs.

  • Objective Scientist Aug 30, 12:43 p.m.

    What is there to be learned from the recent numerous articles about teaching/teachers and comments posted about them? One is that there is a group of people who appear to have absolutely NO respect for teachers, who believe that becoming a teacher is no better than graduating from a program in "cake decorating", and are "just fine" with being almost at the bottom in the USA in teacher pay/benefits and in spending on education in general, and that seem to literally HATE teachers! From where does all that vile and venom come??? Is it from those who struggled in school? Is it from those who had a truly bad experience from one or more teachers as a student in their classrooms? From where does all that "trashing" of teachers come??? What are the reasons behind it??? Certainly the comments posted in this forum do not even come close to a "scientific, representative sample" of how NC folks feel about education/teachers, etc. I can only hope the majority feel differently!!!

  • goldenosprey Aug 30, 12:15 p.m.

    Conservative voter, there was a time when the best and brightest, particularly among women, were the teachers. Teacher pay has fallen behind what similarly educated workers have in the private sector.

    While you praise the wonders of the "private sector" where everyone has less job security than an NBA coach, you neglect that most private sector employees with a college degree don't have to work off the clock or buy supplies for other people with their own money. They actually get paid something close to what they are worth (most of the time).

    Teachers know they won't get rich performing a job that enriches society, instead of shareholders. That doesn't mean they'll stick around when we treat them like something stuck to our shoe.

  • ConservativeVoter Aug 30, 11:19 a.m.

    The legislature did well by ending tenure for teachers.

    Teachers are now treated like the rest of us in the private sector.

    We're hired and fired at will.

    From my experiences as a student several years ago and a parent of middle school and high school kids, tenure existed solely to protect poor performing teachers who would have been gone if it wasn't for tenure.

  • ConservativeVoter Aug 30, 11:17 a.m.

    "In addition to frustration over pay, she said, there's a lot of anger among teachers at state legislators for eliminating tenure rights for veteran teachers and ending extra pay for teachers with advanced degrees."

    It seems teachers think they are special and deserve to be treated that way.

    In the public sector we don't have the concept of tenure.

    We're hired at will and fired at will.

    From my experiences, it seems that tenure is a way to protect poor performing teachers from being disciplined and fired.

    Also, in the private sector there isn't normally a special pay uplift if you have a higher degree. You may qualify for a better job but you don't get a special pay bump because of the degree.

  • ConservativeVoter Aug 30, 11:09 a.m.

    "You think maybe they might be getting more media attention now that Republican's are in charge? - btneast"

    Seeing that WRAL isn't a news source. It's actually the public address system for liberal and Democrat causes.

    It's been attacking the Republican governor and legislature for everything it's done.

    Yet it tried to discreetly brush under the rug the conviction of former Governor Easley and the scandals surrounding Bev Perdue and her political donors.

    WRAL has no credibility. It's a spokesperson for the Democrats and that's about it.

  • ConservativeVoter Aug 30, 11:07 a.m.

    "Trantham said she recently lost teachers to Kentucky and Tennessee. In addition to frustration over pay, she said, there's a lot of anger among teachers at state legislators for eliminating tenure rights for veteran teachers and ending extra pay for teachers with advanced degrees."

    A teacher in Tennessee that I know told there is effectively no tenure in Tennessee either after changes by the Legislature.

    Saying teachers are leaving the state is a great exaggeration. There may be a few but it's not a wholesale migration.

    Relocating an entire family is impossible when the teacher is most likely the secondary salary in a household.

    I've always heard that those that can do, those that can't teach.

    Most teachers that I know went into teaching when they had problems with a much harder major.

    We're not dealing with the best and the brightest in most cases.

    Plus there are teachers with teaching degrees lining up to teach in North Carolina, so let the few disgruntled troublemakers go s

  • OleNCNative Aug 30, 11:05 a.m.

    given that statistic which is MEANINGLESS, i quit reading the article.

    Are they comparing the pay of a NC teacher with the pay of a teacher in California or New York, where the cost of living is significantly higher? You have to factor in the cost of living in the respective areas in order to be more accurate as to the "buying power" of a teacher in their particular area.
    btneast

    Ummm, that's the national average, not what California or New York pays, which is much higher...

  • ConservativeVoter Aug 30, 11:03 a.m.

    Thank you WRAL for posting the free propaganda pieced for NCEA.

    Glad to know that WRAL is supporting Democrat and Liberal causes.

  • btneast Aug 30, 10:05 a.m.

    "The state's average teacher salary of $45,967 is almost $10,000 less than the national average."

    given that statistic which is MEANINGLESS, i quit reading the article.

    Are they comparing the pay of a NC teacher with the pay of a teacher in California or New York, where the cost of living is significantly higher? You have to factor in the cost of living in the respective areas in order to be more accurate as to the "buying power" of a teacher in their particular area.

  • btneast Aug 30, 10:01 a.m.

    In fact teachers and state employees have been protesting their wages for the past 30 years that I know of. They are just more vocal when there is a Republican in charge.

    You think maybe they might be getting more media attention now that Republican's are in charge?

  • miseem Aug 29, 7:46 p.m.

    Everybody has access to the highway and the public school system, yet everyone is not a success. YOU EARN your success. It is not given to you.
    Pirate01.

    But without decent roads and other transportation infrastructure, and decent school facilities and staff (including teachers, admin and facility staff) it is much harder for anyone to EARN their success. It would be hard businesses in the US to make a profit with inadequate roads, rail and air routes. These all are either tax supported, tax assisted, or got a big jump start in getting established due to federal legislation. By the same token, it would be very difficult for many of the businesses today to make a profit without a public education system that can provide them with skilled and educated workers. Clearly, not everyone comes out of the public schools educated, but most do. Of course, then their jobs get outsourced to India.

  • HappinessIsAChoice Aug 29, 7:11 p.m.

    Hmmmm, it's interesting how some people think that teaching doesn't take intelligence. They should try it before they state stuff like that idea. Teaching, if done correctly, takes a lot of intelligence, especially in their content area. I am a more effective English teacher because I have a BA in English, and it was not a " throw away" degree. There were future engineers and doctors in some of my English courses that failed those courses while shining in the science and math courses. It is not a lesser intelligence but a different kind.

  • jackflash123 Aug 29, 7:06 p.m.

    "... no bashing. I am just saying that someone that got a four year degree in what equates to cake decorating-"

    Aaaand that would be bashing.

  • NCHighlander Aug 29, 6:49 p.m.

    Perhaps a job in the fast food industry is a better choice.

  • Seeminglyopposed Aug 29, 6:27 p.m.

    Anyone that can still comment liberal vs conservative, Democratic vs Republican, Black vs White, can not have a common child in public school. The ONLY people who are seemingly unnerved or unsympathetic to what is happening is the childless and the Rich. Liberal Rich, Conservative Rich, Democratic and/or Republican Rich and lastly black or white RICH! Everyone else knows this is a shame for educators and the children. Period

  • golorealist Aug 29, 6:13 p.m.

    Hockeyplayer- I never said that teachers should make as much as your brother who was a pharmacist making 140 k per year. in fact I think you're silly just for suggesting that.I've never seen anybody else suggest that either. nobody is suggesting that teachers deserve to make three times as much as they currently do.

  • NCSU_JIM Aug 29, 5:50 p.m.

    i wish i could make around 45K a year

  • HappinessIsAChoice Aug 29, 5:48 p.m.

    I love how all the people are stating in all the various articles about teacher pay that "it takes [so many] years to reach $40,000." Teacher pay has been frozen for several years, so right now they're not even working towards that much money. If salaries remain frozen, teachers won't ever reach even that much.

  • HockeyPlayerX Aug 29, 5:47 p.m.

    "Your best bet is to work on the governor's campaign staff so you can be rewarded with a mystery DHHS job for $85K a year that you are not really qualified for." ... or be John Edwards and you can be paid a six figure salary at UNC Chapel Hill to never even turn the lights on in the office they provided for you.

  • HockeyPlayerX Aug 29, 5:45 p.m.

    " and are willing to bash teachers mercilessly b/c of it" ... no bashing. I am just saying that someone that got a four year degree in what equates to cake decorating does not deserve to make as much money as someone that spent 7-10 years earning a degree that was much, much harder to earn. And, the people with those degrees perform a job that is much more in demand...and is in turn, more demanding. Funny how the laws of supply and demand work, isn't it?

  • AFSC426X3 Aug 29, 5:44 p.m.

    Can't blame the teachers for going somewhere else. Maybe someday the elected leaders will realize just how important teachers are and that there is no walk of life that a teacher does not affect. Glad I retired from teaching last year.

  • jgilchr Aug 29, 5:43 p.m.

    Your best bet is to work on the governor's campaign staff so you can be rewarded with a mystery DHHS job for $85K a year that you are not really qualified for.

  • HockeyPlayerX Aug 29, 5:42 p.m.

    " HockeyPlayerX i'm sure you would have been just as successful in your own educational endeavors without teachers that had earned those degrees that you don't respect." ... you know what, I had some good teachers along the way, but I had some really poor ones as well. The problem is...and try and stay with me here...I do not believe that the role they played is worth any more than what they currently earn. I am a bad example really, my degree really has very little to do with what I actually do for my living, but to address your point that my brother the pharmacist's 2nd grade teach should earn as much as he does is the point I am trying to address here. It does not take nearly as much training, knowledge, or...let's face it, intelligence to teach 2nd grade as it does to be a Pharmacist. I am sorry if you find that offensive, but it is a fact.

  • free2bme Aug 29, 5:23 p.m.

    So, if you are going to opine on a subject, it would you well to learn something about the subject instead of regurgitating the same old, inaccurate liberal rants. josephlawrence43

    So sad that you are a teacher and has not gather the facts about teachers & how they are being negatively impacted this year. It is this year that all the following happened at once - no raises, took tenure, took raises for Masters, cut TAs for 2nd and 3rd grade teachers. It is a disgrace that the NC GOP Legislature caused this much damage at one time to our teachers. It is called the truth not an opinion or liberal rant. It does not matter how long taking tenure was discussed, it was never acted upon until now by you know who. Forget about parties for once and just think about the teachers of this state, the NC GOP has gone too far. They should never have done so many negative things at one time to hurt the teachers- That has never happened before.

  • Plenty Coups Aug 29, 5:06 p.m.

    oldschool rules-"Gov pay has never and should never equal or compete with private sector pay. Private sector pay comes from profit, gov pay comes from our taxes."

    Thanks for your opinion which clearly shows that you don't like paying taxes. None of us do. Now show me why those same teachers should be the only ones in the nation to get their Master's pay taken away. Show me why their pay should be so low compared to other states. Show me why their benefits should also be terrible. Let me guess, because you want somebody else to pay for it.

  • golorealist Aug 29, 5:06 p.m.

    "In fact teachers and state employees have been protesting their wages for the past 30 years that I know of. They are just more vocal when there is a Republican in charge." - Pirate01

    nah, they have been just as vocal over the last 4-5 years. you just didn't pay attention for whatever reason. your comment seems to suggest that you believe most teachers are liberals. i know a lot of teachers between family, friends, and my wife's coworkers. most of them are conservatives. they are all upset with the current situation, and htey have been for a long time. i assure you, their frustration is much less partisan than your lack of support for them is.

  • golorealist Aug 29, 5:02 p.m.

    "I was a mechanic so does that mean I can charge each one of you everytime I had to buy a new tool or take an ASE CERT.?" - rlee1117

    if you aren't able to charge your customers enough to cover your costs (including certifications and tools), would you stay in business? not in the long term. you'd likely consider moving your business or entering into another business of some sort. good question, though.

  • golorealist Aug 29, 4:59 p.m.

    "given that statistic which is MEANINGLESS, i quit reading the article.

    no one is going to win any points with me using that approach." - wakewiseone

    i know, it's meaningless to simply say we rank below the national average in teacher pay without adding other meaningful data such as our schools are ranked better than the national average, our students' sat score improvements far exceed the national average, we have far more certified teachers than any other state, and our cost of living is below that of the national average. when you add the other relevant facts in, then it becomes meaningful to say that our teachers are paid significantly below the national average.

  • jackflash123 Aug 29, 4:57 p.m.

    "cry me a river. You knew that teaching was not a high paying profession, yet you did it anyway."

    Here we go around that circle again... 1, I show up and do my job every day. No crying here. 2, I also knew there were annual steps, job security, caps on class size, Masters' pay, etc. Those changes are what I know object to. I've already told you this. The rest of your post, which doesn't deserve a response, makes it pretty clear you just don't care at all and are willing to bash teachers mercilessly b/c of it.

  • BKind21Another Aug 29, 4:56 p.m.

    If you were BH buddies with McCrory, you wouldn't have to worry about getting a raise. The raises he gives is more than some people make all year.!!

  • NC_interest Aug 29, 4:55 p.m.

    "I would like a show of hands for any teacher who, while in college, actually thought that they would be payed comparatively to a private sector job. I don't see any hands!!!
    "

    Wow so clever of you to ask for a show of hands through the internet.

  • golorealist Aug 29, 4:55 p.m.

    "Good. I was concerned that I had not made that clear." - HockeyPlayerX

    i'm sure you would have been just as successful in your own educational endeavors without teachers that had earned those degrees that you don't respect.

  • NC_interest Aug 29, 4:54 p.m.

    "I was a mechanic so does that mean I can charge each one of you everytime I had to buy a new tool or take an ASE CERT.?
    Click to view my profile rlee1117"

    If it was required for your job, yes. That is why people have to pay 80-90 bucks and hour to get a car fixed. Overhead and training.

  • jackflash123 Aug 29, 4:54 p.m.

    "Add Pennsylvania to the list of states that are getting our teachers. Two of my neighbors left NC this summer to take jobs in PA."

    W/ their one-year-old daughter? I think I know them.

  • Bill Brasky Aug 29, 4:52 p.m.

    "Then we can give control of our kids education back to the parents and not controlled indoctrination camps of the democrat party. " - pirates

    I didn't want to comment on this, I got a big enough laugh reading it!

  • wakewiseone Aug 29, 4:50 p.m.

    beginning of the sixth paragraph...........

    "The state's average teacher salary of $45,967 is almost $10,000 less than the national average."

    given that statistic which is MEANINGLESS, i quit reading the article.

    no one is going to win any points with me using that approach.

  • Bill Brasky Aug 29, 4:50 p.m.

    "Why was all these complaints not blown up before Mr McCrory came in office?"

    You must not have been paying attention or perhaps you do not know any teachers. They have been complaining for a long time about lack of funding towards public education. Then McCrory took it a step further and eroded teacher benefits, that was the straw that broke the camel's back...and why we are seeing so many teachers leaving this state or going into new fields.

  • golorealist Aug 29, 4:50 p.m.

    "Does this mean that it takes more money to make them better teachers?" - rlee1117

    no. it means that it takes money to attract and retain quality teachers. there's a difference.

  • censorshipsucks Aug 29, 4:49 p.m.

    I would like a show of hands for any teacher who, while in college, actually thought that they would be payed comparatively to a private sector job. I don't see any hands!!!

  • Pirate01 Aug 29, 4:47 p.m.

    "teachers have been protesting their compensation since at least 2009. a lot of people apparently only decided to become offended by it once mccrory took office.
    golorealist"

    In fact teachers and state employees have been protesting their wages for the past 30 years that I know of. They are just more vocal when there is a Republican in charge.

  • tarheelpatriot Aug 29, 4:46 p.m.

    I love the way WRAL changes the headline after someone tells them it doesn't make sense..

    Yesterday- low pay forces teachers to choose between profession , state.
    Today- Low pay forces some from profession,state.

  • Plenty Coups Aug 29, 4:45 p.m.

    rlee-"Some people have a 4 year college degree and work @ wal-mart for alot less than 30k per year also."

    Anecdotal evidence stating that a few people w/ college degrees aren't making what the average pay is for college degrees proves what again? Please explain.

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