This story is closed for comments. Comments on WRAL.com news stories are accepted and moderated between the hours of 8 a.m. and 8 p.m. Monday through Friday.

Oldest First
  • rbaff79 Aug 14, 10:39 a.m.

    "Funny, I remember that, when I was 15, I knew that murder was wrong. When I was 13 I knew that... View More

    — Posted by Grand Union

    Stop...close your eyes and think for a second. Think "why" voting (a minor subject in your opinion) is not allowed for teenagers (the limit used to be 21 at one time). If you cannot, look it up. There's a debate page for raising the limit back to 21 here (http://www.debate.org/opinions/should-the-voting-age-increase-to-21).

    Do some more critical thinking about the other point you made.

    Then compare this to how much critical thinking goes into knowing that committing a pre-meditated murder is WRONG!

  • Sherlock Mar 1, 11:40 a.m.

    The 15-year-old testified Wednesday morning that the group had a habit of attacking homeless people – what they called "a lick" – and were looking for a victim in November when they found Brown.. they should all be tried as adults..THEY KNEW

  • ncguy321 Feb 28, 6:35 p.m.

    Dan Cooper...how do you know I dont care about the boys? How do you that I don't know them? You don't. You and the others are the worst kind of ignorant as you have no desire to learn about the real world our societies poor live in and what they deal with daily. Again, I am not excusing these boys for what they did I am merely observing that you and others here have no concept if how others live. U would like to see how you would turn out in a single parent family, impoverished, neighborhood full of gangs, no future or hope instilled in you. Yes, I am sure you would have been perfect.

  • Red Green Feb 28, 5:52 p.m.

    ".....if we don't trust kids to be able to make rational choices of relatively minor subjects like that why on earth do you think they are capable of making a rational choice to kill someone?????" Grand Union

    So according to you commiting murder is a rational choice? Don't be obtuse, everyone at that age knows it's wrong to kill someone and if they make a conscious choice to beet someone bad enough to kill them they should be tried as adults. End of story!

  • Red Green Feb 28, 3:15 p.m.

    “ Oh I do so love Irony. Charging children as adults is barbaric and pure hypocrisy.” Grand Union

    So let me see if I can get this straight in my head, it’s society’s duty to let murderers walk but yet you think we need to confiscate firearms from law abiding citizens. What’s wrong with this picture?

  • Grand Union Feb 28, 2:51 p.m.

    "Funny, I remember that, when I was 15, I knew that murder was wrong. When I was 13 I knew that murder was wrong. When I was 5 I knew that murder is wrong.
    The notion that someone cannot develop enough to know that such things are wrong until age 21 is absurd."

    LOL and so why can't you vote until you are 18? why can't you decide who you want to have sex with until you are 18.....if we don't trust kids to be able to make rational choices of relatively minor subjects like that why on earth do you think they are capable of making a rational choice to kill someone?????

  • Grand Union Feb 28, 2:28 p.m.

    "You don't care about the victim OR the offenders, you only see an opportunity to insult others and feign enlightenment. What you are expressing is an opinion and quite an unoriginal one at that."

    Oh I do so love Irony. Charging children as adults is barbaric and pure hypocrisy. Justice is not about the victim. Justice is to protect society, but society cannot decide on one hand its convenient to treat children as children purely based on their age for Driving, voting, sex etc and then turn around and then treat the same people as adults because it fits in with a primitive old testament wish for revenge.

  • ncouterbanks69 Feb 28, 2:00 p.m.

    Justice

  • Uhavenoclu Feb 28, 1:57 p.m.

    The suspect's defense attorney, George Kelly, however, said his client did not intend to kill Brown.

    Always after the facy huh?Was the lawyer there?,did the lawyerr know how they were thinking and planning?,was the lawyer part of it?,try the lawyer as well...
    They intended to do harm.They found the guy and talked about doing him harm whether for a slit second ot 5 days.They still planned to do him harm.
    The only crime they should be tried for is stupididty,why do criminals think that robbing the ghetto and homeless people and killing them will bring them millions and make them heros....
    "What did you do?"
    "I killed a homeless man".
    Homeless shelters are mainly halfway houses for people on probation who just got out or for battered women...Have fun boys

  • Dan Cooper Feb 28, 12:26 p.m.

    "The repeated ignorance in this board is astounding. These are children who did a terrible wrong but they are children."

    You don't care about the victim OR the offenders, you only see an opportunity to insult others and feign enlightenment. What you are expressing is an opinion and quite an unoriginal one at that.

  • irishluck1978 Feb 28, 11:55 a.m.

    I understand the reaction people are giving at the fact that these are childern but, at ages 13 & 15 they do know the diference from right and wrong. As a matter of fact, it is in the article that not only is this not the 1st time they have done something like this, the have done it repeatedly and even named it.......Like a sport or hobby. Even with 1st Degree Murder charged they will not get the death penalty, just life, that is actually a state law. They can be tried as adults but not put to death. As sad as I feel that this is what the next generation is coming to I feel sorry for the man killed who was in a bad spot in his life but trying to get back on his feet. I hope justice does give them a severe punishment because unfortunate as it may seem, some people (these children), aren't worth giving a 2nd chance to.

  • dcatz Feb 28, 11:38 a.m.

    "It is scienticfic research and proof that the brain doesnt develop until at LEAST 21."

    Funny, I remember that, when I was 15, I knew that murder was wrong. When I was 13 I knew that murder was wrong. When I was 5 I knew that murder is wrong.

    The notion that someone cannot develop enough to know that such things are wrong until age 21 is absurd.

  • Mr. Middle of the Road Feb 28, 11:28 a.m.

    Mr. Middle of the Road -- "And you know this because?"

    Well... because they went back to hide the poor man's body

    No, that prooves they did not want to get caught. They still have the brains of children. Even children do not want to get caught adfter they do wrong. I am not saying they should not be punished. They commited a horrific act, of course they should be punished. But fromthe prospective of their being children.

  • Red Green Feb 28, 9:56 a.m.

    It is scienticfic research and proof that the brain doesnt develop until at LEAST 21. Given the comments here it may be quite later. It was a horrible thing that these kids did...I am not denying that but throwing them in prison for 15 years will make them into bigger criminals who will be out on the streets.” jstewart1

    Scientific research would suggest that the man who died will remain dead regardless of these “adolescents” brain development. I’m sure at their given age they should have a cognizant ability, regardless of how much more development their brain has to go, to recognize that what they are doing is wrong, after all we’re talking about murder not shoplifting. Lock them up for life.

  • LKG-Lover Feb 28, 9:12 a.m.

    Try them as adults and give them the max penalty allowed. The only deterent is harsh penalties. Now if we could take the money we are giving to Syria and use that for the Homeless in our own country, maybe it would make us a better nation. We should take care of our own before we try to help others.

  • GiglioSucks Feb 28, 9:07 a.m.

    The repeated ignorance in this board is astounding. These are children who did a terrible wrong but they are children. I wonder if any opinions would change if you knew these boys and taught them in school. My guess is it would. Every behavior has a function. Nobody does something without reason, unless mentally ill. What we should be asking is why was more not done for these boys earlier? Why was there not more interventions? There were signs, there always is. Why were they missed? We let these boys down. It takes a village!!!

    Typical liberal bs. These boys beat a man to death for no reason at all. The blame doesn't lie on society for 'letting these boys down.' The blame lies on these kids and their parents. Anybody knows well before the age of 15 that murder is wrong and they need to be punished severely. Death penalty if you ask me

  • mtnmanfred Feb 28, 9:04 a.m.

    I VOTE THE DEATH PENALTY FOR ALL , AS WELL AS THOSE MURDERERS IN CHAPEL HILL THAT GOT OFF LIGHT ,EVE CARSON DID NOT DESERVE THAT , LIBERAL JUDGES DON'T CARE .........

  • mtnmanfred Feb 28, 9:01 a.m.

    I NOTICE IN TODAYS ARTICLE THAT ''' 2 TEENS WILL BE TRIED AS AN ADULT ''' SO TELL ME WHY WAS THE YOUNG MAN UP IN CHAPEL HILL NOT CHARGED ?? SEEMS WE HAVE A LAW SUIT HERE OF OLD FASHION DESCRIMINATION ......I 'M SICK OF THIS MESS ,THE YOUNG LADY FROM CAROLINA DESERVES JUSTICE AS MUCH AS THIS MAN . I'M VERY SORRY FOR THIS MAN ,BUT ITS HIGH TIME WE DO AWAY WITH THESE MURDERERS ,I MEAN QUICK LIKE .......... THANK YOU

  • fastolemanswife Feb 28, 8:35 a.m.

    If they kill somebody, they should all be tried as adults...if they're big enough boys to murder, they're big enough boys to get the stiffer penalties.....

  • racheliza Feb 28, 8:24 a.m.

    This story makes me sick. They were attacking other homeless people too?? All of those kids should be tried as adults and receive maximum penalties. Look at the guy from Vermont who just shot the officer--he serviced a small sentence for his violent home invasion (caused TBI for his victim) and came back to do more harm in our community months later. Throw these kids' parents in prison too.

  • littleriver69 Feb 28, 8:09 a.m.

    I vote death penalty for all of them!

  • autismawareness Feb 28, 8:04 a.m.

    oh come on, we can rehabilitate them!

  • ncguy321 Feb 27, 7:56 p.m.

    The repeated ignorance in this board is astounding. These are children who did a terrible wrong but they are children. I wonder if any opinions would change if you knew these boys and taught them in school. My guess is it would. Every behavior has a function. Nobody does something without reason, unless mentally ill. What we should be asking is why was more not done for these boys earlier? Why was there not more interventions? There were signs, there always is. Why were they missed? We let these boys down. It takes a village!!!

    P.S. Bad seeds are a myth. If you believe in them then you know nothing of adolescent development or psychology.

    It is easier to blame than to assume responsibility for our own shortcomings.

  • Dazd N Confused Feb 27, 7:48 p.m.

    There is a huge difference between a 13-15 yr old having a beer and torturing a person to death. Yes, I do believe something went wrong for a child for them not to know the difference between right and wrong in this regard. Yes, they may not need "life in prison" but they obviously need psychiatric help. If you place people in Juvie at 13-15 years old for crimes like this and let them out when they are 18-21, they are not going to be productive citizens. They are going to be doing something similar.

    One of my professors put it best by saying, "if you don't read your history you are bound to repeat it." If you let these kids do this and get away with it, they'll do it again and again until we put them somewhere where they cannot do it again.

    A beer is one thing, a life is completely different. You cannot bring that man back to life. The question really will be, can you prevent there from being another life taken by these same hands? If you let them back on the street, then ye

  • peace2u Feb 27, 7:46 p.m.

    Colon Willoughby is correct when he said we must have more intervention programs for juveniles. We need to know what is causing these children and young adults to become vicious criminals. Until we have more knowledge about why they are turning out this way, we will probably just see more of the same.

  • Fireflies Rock Feb 27, 7:42 p.m.

    This senseless vicious crime makes me want to cry. This poor man, beaten for "sport" and left alone to die. Did any of these horrible kids think of him as a human being with feelings, a life, and a child who loved him? With such an amoral view, I'd like to think we'll never see them in society again, but we all know that won't happen. Horrible. Rest in Peace, Sir.

  • 3forme Feb 27, 7:38 p.m.

    If your child commits cold blooded, premeditated murder as evidenced by this particular situation, rehab is probably going to be a waste of time..Maybe next time that person they attack is armed and we are deciding whether to prosecute him for murder..Our society is at a corner and we better turn the right way ...

  • Ex-Republican Feb 27, 7:32 p.m.

    "So, there is always a possibility they could face being charged as an adult at 13, your baby, your child, as you already try to figure out what you did wrong as a parent, your child may get life in prison at 13."

    If my child did that you are darn right I would try to figure out what I did wrong. I would be horrified as any normal person would.

    Very thoughtful post, jjsmith1973.

  • jjsmith1973 Feb 27, 7:19 p.m.

    I'm well aware that the comments will be coming on how incorrect I am. So I will already reply. I realize that all the posters on here have perfect lives and do nothing wrong, ever or when they do, do something wrong the get out of it because of whom they know. So they get to maintain their perfection. Your children are all angels and never do wrong as you all point. Yes this has a point to the story, your child at anytime may do something you could never imagine and it usually ends up happening to the parents that set themselves and their kids so high above everyone else. So, there is always a possibility they could face being charged as an adult at 13, your baby, your child, as you already try to figure out what you did wrong as a parent, your child may get life in prison at 13. Remember that and your perfect world

  • jjsmith1973 Feb 27, 7:13 p.m.

    @dazd N confused I always love when someone states how good and great their child is because nine out of ten times I hear that. The kid ends up in trouble with the law, or a terror to everyone. Then again I'm sure you are certain that your child when 16 will never be accused of killing someone ever, even if it is a car accident where they were speeding like kids do. Thank God you can see the future because I would hate for that great kid that was goofing off in a car at sixteen to be tried as an adult.

  • jjsmith1973 Feb 27, 7:09 p.m.

    Don't you see the difference between driving & being able to purchase beer and cold blooded brutal murder? Why should we be hung up on everything being available at the same age? They were old enough to know what they were doing was seriously wrong and should have serious punishment.
    thepeopleschamp

    No because of this we are talking trial as an adult or Juvie. The point is we say these kids at 13 and 15 can't do the things b/c they are not responsible enough and we say they don't fully understand the consequances to do things like driving, drinking, smoking, gambling, serving in the military. We say they don't fully understand the consequances. Then people like you say send them to trial b/c they fully understand what they are doing. No one here doesn't think these kids need punished first off, second, people on this site want to say kids are to young to do certain things like driving even at 16 b/c lack of responsibility, but then say they are adults at 13 when it comes to crime

  • Dazd N Confused Feb 27, 6:26 p.m.

    Mr. Middle of the Road -- "And you know this because?"

    Well... because they went back to hide the poor man's body.

  • Dazd N Confused Feb 27, 6:25 p.m.

    I don't honestly see why they shouldn't be tried as adults. I mean if they are doing this at 13-15 years old, what makes you think they'll be "upstanding citizens" when they are 18-21? Obviously something isn't right with them, if they think this kind of behavior is "OK"

    I'm sorry, but my 8 year old child knows that beating a person is wrong. So why shouldn't a 13 or 15 year old. Come on, they should be treated like an adult or at the very least placed in a Psych ward. They obviously do not have any regard for a human life, they placed a MAN in a TRASH CAN like they were garbage! Why should we treat them like a child? They wanted to act like big and bad "men" then we should treat them like MEN, not boys.

  • kcfoxie Feb 27, 6:24 p.m.

    Mr. Middle of the Road: Please explain to me how you can justify putting the body into a trash can as not knowing what you'd done and a poor attempt to cover it up? If this were "self defense," they'd have reported it and left his body *in the drainage pipe.*

  • Mr. Middle of the Road Feb 27, 5:56 p.m.

    They were old enough to know what they were doing was seriously wrong and should have serious punishment.
    thepeopleschamp

    And you know this because?

  • rk1115 Feb 27, 5:07 p.m.

    thepeopleschamp - So you're thinking is that when a teen purchases beer, drinks and drives, and kills their friend in a car accident, to you that's just teens not being old enough to know not to drink and drive. So they should only get a slap on the wrist.

    But if they kill someone with a gun, let's put them away for life?

    Come on, you're rational doesn't make any sense. Killing someone whether by a gun or by drinking is still killing someone. So why only slap a teen on the wrist for drinking/driving and killing someone? And put them away for life for killing someone with a gun?

    The law should stand by the meaning between an Adolecent and Adults. They are not the same.

  • thepeopleschamp Feb 27, 4:50 p.m.

    "No where does our laws say: Adults = age 0 and above" rk1115

    So we're going by what the law says? Good, because the law has a provision for trying juveniles as adults, which is what is happening here as it should.

  • thepeopleschamp Feb 27, 4:48 p.m.

    "Let's allow them to have sex, smoke, drive, drink, go out to bars, gamble, buy/own guns the list goes on and on. If you don't want to have kids be able to do adult things, then they should not be tried as adults." rk1115

    Don't you see the difference between driving & being able to purchase beer and cold blooded brutal murder? Why should we be hung up on everything being available at the same age? They were old enough to know what they were doing was seriously wrong and should have serious punishment.

  • tres1p Feb 27, 4:41 p.m.

    And they should, these teens already have VIOLENT histories and they will only become worse if left alone.

  • rk1115 Feb 27, 4:33 p.m.

    adolecents = younger then 18
    adults = 18 and over

    No where does our laws say: Adults = age 0 and above

  • rk1115 Feb 27, 4:13 p.m.

    Raleigh Rocks - So if you want to hang these minors, then lets change all laws for minors. Let's allow them to have sex, smoke, drive, drink, go out to bars, gamble, buy/own guns the list goes on and on. If you don't want to have kids be able to do adult things, then they should not be tried as adults.

  • DontVote4LiarsCheatsOrThieves Feb 27, 3:43 p.m.

    Wish we had [Like] buttons here.

  • jstewart1 Feb 27, 3:41 p.m.

    It is scienticfic research and proof that the brain doesnt develop until at LEAST 21. Given the comments here it may be quite later. It was a horrible thing that these kids did...I am not denying that but throwing them in prison for 15 years will make them into bigger criminals who will be out on the streets. At this age, there is still the hope of rehabilitation. Wouldn't you rather have that now than learn how to be a professional criminal and be out in 15?

  • Raleigh Rocks 1 Feb 27, 3:34 p.m.

    Put them on trial as adults, convict them as adults, and
    if they are guilty, provide them the death sentence as adults.

    The very few and wrong people that support the kids being tried as minors, you have lost all sense of judgment and creditability. Even most Liberals know what is right here. Proves to me that you are just liberals before anything else..including common sense.

    RK said..If they're too young to be tried as an adult for sex crimes, drinking, gambling, smoking (buying cigarettes). Then they are too young to be tried as an adult for murdering someone......

    What..you have compared cigs to murder? Sorry, thats just wrong. Murder is the worst of the worst, and the brutal way these men are accused of doing it, is sickning.

  • TheDude abides... Feb 27, 3:19 p.m.

    Again, can anyone tell me if this was the panhandler that stood at the corner of Hammond and the 440 offramp?

    Just want to know if that was him.

  • TheDude abides... Feb 27, 3:18 p.m.

    Just like America...nobody wants to take responsibility for anything. Always the victim.

    We deserve what we get

  • mrr03 Feb 27, 3:16 p.m.

    Please keep in mind that JUDGES have to be re-elected..If Judges cannot or will not keep criminal off our street it is time we elect Judges who do.

  • Obamacare rises Feb 27, 3:14 p.m.

    This whole story is just disgusting. Let them all rot in prison for life.

  • BobLoblaw Feb 27, 3:04 p.m.

    "these kids are a product of their environment. Poverty and lack of education are the real villains. these youngsters need to be educated and rehabilitated, not punished." - fisherphil

    How do you know? What assumptions are you making? For all anyone knows, these kids had a good home/parents/resources. Regardless, do we just give everyone a free pass "because they are a product of their environment"? I grew up in poverty, as did many of my peers, and we grew up to be responsible, crime-free, drug-free, hard-working adults.

    Ridiculous that anyone honestly believes this tripe.

  • BobLoblaw Feb 27, 3:01 p.m.

    Really sad for this man and his daughter. With respect to "brain not being fully developed until 21", that's ridiculous. Every 15-yo knows this kind of conduct is absolutely wrong ... this is not a case of throwing water balloons.

Oldest First