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tierneemalinadeveaux Feb 25, 11:58 a.m.
Uhavenoclu, you made a great point. If these homeowners lived near Walnut Creek (or whatever that stadium is called now), there would be a volume level and a time restraint on how much and how long they could disturb the neighbors.
People's arrogance these days is atrocious. I don't care if they do call themselves a church, and I happen to be a Christian. I am also a homeowner who does not want to hear their "praise and worship" when I am at home trying to read a book or study for a class. If their god is that hard of hearing, then they probably need to change Gods!!!!!!
tierneemalinadeveaux Feb 25, 11:52 a.m.
glarg, what the neighbors are objecting to is being disturbed by unappealling noises within their own homes. I am a Christian, and I get sick of coming home from my church, which is located in a residential area, only to be blasted by the noise from a church which is down the road at least a mile. It is rude, disrespectful and arrogant of the church to continue disturbing the neighbors so much so that they felt they had to take the church to court to enjoy the solitude of their own homes.
jeffnnc, thanks for the quotes, but they are all trumped by 1 Corinthians 10:22-23 which states "All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not...Let no man seek his own..."
Just because one CAN do something does not mean he SHOULD do it..in this case, the judge sided with the church, but the church needs to remember that they answer to a higher Judge, who will not hold them guiltless for driving away lost souls...
Trekker Feb 19, 1:34 p.m.
"Its sounds like the "neighbors" are really objecting to the content of the noise rather than its level." glarg
As is their right. Not everyone enjoys a good ole Sunday morning revival. If the parishioners enjoy it that's fine but they should keep it within their own walls.
glarg Feb 19, 12:46 p.m.
60dBm at the property line is really nothing. And inside the houses it has to be really negligible.
Its sounds like the "neighbors" are really objecting to the content of the noise rather than its level.
PJM Feb 19, 10:59 a.m.
I personally think those neighbors need go and visit the church and see what they are all about...I would have been quite embarrassed to file a lawsuit against noise level of a church...
jeffnnc Feb 19, 9:58 a.m.
"Actually the bible makes it quite clear that praise and worship should not be showy and loud"-Grand Union
Really? Where does it say that? Not saying you are wrong but here are just a few verses that seem to contradict that.
Psalm 95:1-2 “Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation. Let us come before him with thanksgiving and extol him with music and song”
Psalm 98:4-6 “Shout for joy to the LORD, all the earth, burst into jubilant song with music; make music to the LORD with the harp, with the harp and the sound of singing, with trumpets and the blast of the ram's horn— shout for joy before the LORD, the King”.
Isaiah 12:4-6 “Give thanks to the LORD, call on his name; make known among the nations what he has done, and proclaim that his name is exalted. Sing to the LORD, for he has done glorious things; let this be known to all the world. Shout aloud and sing for joy, people of Zion, for great is the Holy One of Israel among yo
Grand Union Feb 19, 9:23 a.m.
"ok its not fair to the church to limit their praise and worship."
Actually the bible makes it quite clear that praise and worship should not be showy and loud.......and how would you feel if it was a nightclub or a restaurant that ruined your peace on a sunday morning....or is it only religions that get to act like that?
Grand Union Feb 19, 9:20 a.m.
"It’s very irritating and extremely selfish. Who wants to listen to that garbage on Sunday morning?"
No business like a night club would be allowed to spoil peoples sunday mornings like this so why should a church....do they think their God is deaf that they need so much amplification?
more cowbell Feb 19, 9:14 a.m.
Personnally, I think they need more cowbell....
Thank you Relic. Finally, somebody gets it!
smilesobright Feb 19, 9:01 a.m.
ok its not fair to the church to limit their praise and worship. The church has taken the steps to try and help the situation maybe now its time for home owners to take some steps and sound proof their home instead of complaining and whining. The church has been more than fair.
ICTrue Feb 19, 9:00 a.m.
" It’s very irritating and extremely selfish. Who wants to listen to that garbage on Sunday morning?" Car 54
Not me, that's why I had enough brains not to move in next to a church, or an airport, or a train station, or a gun range...
Trekker Feb 19, 8:47 a.m.
“Buy a DB meter or borrow one. 60 DB is nothing, and that is at the churches property line. By the time you get inside these folks houses it is far less then that. People saying "cranking" and 60 DB in the same sentence. LOL That's like speeding along at 2 mph.” astrokin
Fail! The issue is not the decibels but the frequency. The lower the decibel the longer it travels, that’s why whales communicate in ultra-low frequency. I imagine it’s much like when someone has a sub-woofer in their vehicle 6 cars behind you and your windows are rattling. It’s very irritating and extremely selfish. Who wants to listen to that garbage on Sunday morning?
jcthai Feb 19, 8:31 a.m.
Joef, you can't sue the contractor who built someone else's building because you don't like the noise. And the church could never sue him unless he failed to perform something that was specifically outlined in the contracts. The church is not violating any laws, unfortunately, so what would you sue for? Come on man, use your brain....
Uhavenoclu Feb 19, 8:17 a.m.
So does that mean concerts and carnivals and loud music devices from stores can blare their music ?
JoeF Feb 18, 7:17 p.m.
Sue the church's contractor for not building the structure with acoustical materials in between the wall where the fiberglass insulation is located. The sound needs to be blocked.
Whatev333 Feb 18, 7:10 p.m.
Extremely ridiculous the judge sided with the church. How annoying. The thing is like a rock concert from what I have seen on-line.
Ex-Republican Feb 18, 5:56 p.m.
The neighbors should put together a garage rock band and play their music really loud the same time church service is going on. Fight noise with noise.
GravyPig Feb 18, 5:54 p.m.
"Also, imagine the hearing damage that is being done to the congregation. Its like going to a rock concert every Sunday."
Must be one of those new "extreme" ministries. They are being "hip" and "cool" to make church "fun".
GravyPig Feb 18, 5:52 p.m.
""I'll bet if this was some other type business or club with this noise there would be no complaints. But, since it is a church singing Christian Music it is a problem."
They could be playing show tunes for all purposes. The type of music has little to do with it. The problem is that the folks who have to live next door are being disturbed. This complaint has nothing to do with the Church and everything to do with people dealing with excessive noise.
It sounds like(no pun intended) this group's worship is rather different from other churches and is the main reason why folks are complaining.
ustawi Feb 18, 5:48 p.m.
The neighbors should take their own sound readings at their property lines. to see if it's really 60db.
stymieindurham Feb 18, 5:37 p.m.
"What if your neighbors did that every day? Would you still be so inclined to "live with each other"?"
Doesn't matter so long as they are within the ordinance/law.
Relic Feb 18, 5:36 p.m.
"So long as they turn it down by 11:00 PM then it's all good eh? What if your neighbors did that every day? Would you still be so inclined to "live with each other"?"
I've yet to see a church that had services every day. What's your point? If they're making efforts to keep the noise down and not breaking the law then that's pretty much that. If they wanted quiet they should have moved next to a Methodist church. Could hear a pin drop at 11:30 on a Sunday morning then.
jeffnnc Feb 18, 5:35 p.m.
"They are trying all sorts of things except for turning down the bass or the volume all together." GravyPig
Another article on another "news" website says otherwise.
"The church claims it's tried to work with its neighbors by soundproofing walls, lowering sound levels, and changing worship times."
flossie1544 Feb 18, 5:28 p.m.
that church wastes a lot of paper with the mail that ends up in my box.
Then recycle it!
GravyPig Feb 18, 5:26 p.m.
"The article clearly states that the church has made efforts (expensive efforts) to absorb the noise and no one seems to recognize or appreciate that fact. If they are not breaking the noise ordinance what is the problem."
They are trying all sorts of things except for turning down the bass or the volume all together.
"I live near people who drink and party and I don't like their noise but they have that right until 11:00 at night when it has to be toned down for others to sleep. We have to learn to live with each other."
So long as they turn it down by 11:00 PM then it's all good eh? What if your neighbors did that every day? Would you still be so inclined to "live with each other"?
Relic Feb 18, 5:26 p.m.
Personnally, I think they need more cowbell....
Relic Feb 18, 5:25 p.m.
"Sorry folks, you're being too genuine in your worship. Tone it down." Gee the folks at the church can do what they feel makes God happy or the neighbors. Nice of these "neighbors" to be so kind.
GravyPig Feb 18, 5:20 p.m.
"Some people just need something to complain about and if it involves Christians, lookout for all the anti-christians here to pounce all over it."
Some people just need something to complain about and if it involves Liberals, lookout for all the anti-Liberals here to pounce all over it.
I guess you could adapt that to just about any group. I fixed it for you. ;)
jeffnnc Feb 18, 5:08 p.m.
"I suggest the neighbors find where the judge lives and early every Sunday morning show up outside his house and pump bass-laden music right at the 60 db level." White Devil
"I wonder what the tax exempt "church" would say if someone starting blasting ZZ Top or Led Zepplin at 60 db on Sunday morning." jaydosse
LOL. You people are hilarious. Do a little research before you open your mouth. Do you even know how loud 60 db is? That's about the loudness of a normal conversation from 3 feet away. That's hardly loud enough to cause a law suit. Should these people sue their other neighbors when their kids play in the front yard? How about when they mow their lawn? Hey the crickets are too loud at night. Let's get a law passed outlawing them while we are at it. LOL.
dgcreech Feb 18, 5:05 p.m.
To quote an audio website, 60-65 decibels (db) is the equivalent of a standard conversation at 3 ft away.
yankee1 Feb 18, 5:03 p.m.
It is absolutely hilarious to see the holier than thou collection of South Durham residents whine and cry about everything from development to traffic to church music. Wonder how many are all tolerant liberals? Tolerant of only their own beliefs of course!
GravyPig Feb 18, 5:03 p.m.
"Apparently it is the very distant sound of bass that they are complaining about."
And while it may be 60db at the property line, the bass continues to travel. Outside I can bareley hear the VFW down the street when they party. While it isn't that loud in my front yard I can still hear the bass thump inside the house over the normal volume of the TV. It gets a bit annoying. I keep saying I'll call the PD, but they seem to shut things down before I am trying to go to sleep.
GravyPig Feb 18, 4:58 p.m.
"And the Lord said unto thee"....."Drop the bass"
RM24 Feb 18, 4:52 p.m.
ROCK ON! CRANK IT ON UP!!!
sjb2k1 Feb 18, 4:44 p.m.
that church wastes a lot of paper with the mail that ends up in my box.
sendusmessage Feb 18, 4:43 p.m.
A couple of meetings per week at 60 db each seems very reasonable compared to problems that many of us have with residential neighbors & their parties.
Sounds like the church has tried to do the right things. Who exactly are these difficult neighbors and is there a tiny chance that they would not object if it was a bar or other place of business?
astrokin Feb 18, 4:37 p.m.
Vinyl car wraps...
Buy a DB meter or borrow one. 60 DB is nothing, and that is at the churches property line. By the time you get inside these folks houses it is far less then that.
People saying "cranking" and 60 DB in the same sentence. LOL
That's like speeding along at 2 mph.
Minarchist Feb 18, 4:18 p.m.
"Move to a rural county if you want absolute peace and quiet."
Too mnay rooster and chickens. Ask my parents neighbors.
Feb 18, 4:05 p.m.
"Move to a rural county if you want absolute peace and quiet."
This doesn't guarantee you peace and quiet either as I explained in an earlier post about my drunk and disorderly neighbor!
ICTrue Feb 18, 4:05 p.m.
chart of approximate noise levels:
Near total silence - 0 dB
A whisper - 15 to 30 dB
Refrigerator - 40 dB
Normal conversation - 60 dB
Dishwasher - 75 dB
Heavy city traffic or school cafeteria 85 dB
A lawnmower - 90 dB
ICTrue Feb 18, 3:59 p.m.
"How are they looking to cash in? It appears they just want the church to lower the noise to a reasonable level"
Which they have
"Why would the church not want to compromise by turning their sound level down a little bit? Do they really need all that amplification for an inside service? Would that not be more in keeping with neighborliness and selflessness."
They have. Neighborliness and selflessness is a two-way street.
"Insisting on their own way while making others in the community miserable does not seem Christian to me."
You are obviously uninformed. Did you read the article? The church has made and is making efforts to mitigate the noise levels. The noise is less than 60dB at the property line (all in the article, if you read it). That is about the noise level of a normal conversation...and I doubt that they are running services 24X7.
Do you call the police every time that your neighbor mows the lawn? Here is a chart of approximate noise levels:
Near total silence - 0
FairPlay Feb 18, 3:58 p.m.
I went to a friends house that lives 1 block from the church one night. The neighbors are over complaining. You could barely hear anything but a light thumping. It never disturbed us. He is not in the complaint and he says most of the neighbors are feeding on hysteria. If you live in a so called city you have to expect some noise. Move to a rural county if you want absolute peace and quiet.
JustOneGodLessThanU Feb 18, 3:54 p.m.
elyhim2 said, “Why not, they ignore parking laws? Wish someone would file a discrimination suit against city's for allowing churches to ignore rules and hold everyone else accountable.”
Exactly. If you try to enforce the laws on a church that everyone else must follow, they will cry “persecution”, “oppression” and play the martyr card that there is some sort of “war” against them. E.g. zoning laws, tax laws
smdrn Feb 18, 3:50 p.m.
For those that are confused, the judge just denied the restraining order to halt the music until this matter goes to court. He did not say the neighbors can't sue the church. I checked out the website for the church and the website for the neighbors. Apparently, the music hall is this metal building in the back of their church. This church and its pastor have a long history of not being good neighbors. He first ran church services out of his house in Chapel Hill and its members took up all the parking on the street. The neighbors launched several complaints against him and fought to get No Parking signs placed on the street. Because of his history, I very much doubt that this pastor is doing everything he can to make sure he's not annoying his neighbors. He never has and never will.
Boy, I'll bet the neighbors would feel bad if lightening hit that building and started a fire that destroyed it. That would be an act of God.
me2you Feb 18, 3:48 p.m.
All neighborhood barking dogs should be included in this lawsuit.
superman Feb 18, 3:41 p.m.
It is obvious that the church realizes the noise is a disturbance and too loud. Otherwise why are they spending money to correct something that is not a problem. I dont think the church members realize that church members should tell the truth and be honest. Seems to be a very loud dishonest church.
golorealist Feb 18, 3:39 p.m.
"The neighbors should take this matter to a higher court. Obviously the judge did not care. He don't live in the neighborhood." - charmcclainlovesdogs2
the judge ruled based on the law, which is exactly what he, or any higher court, is supposed to do.
Mon Account Feb 18, 3:34 p.m.
"" If the church continues to add sound proofing then they must know it is an issue, yet come back with engineers that say there is no issue." Mon Account
It's called being a good neighbor, sometihng that is obviously lost on you. The church is well within their rights to just tell the neighbors to get lost."
Ha! A church telling people to get lost. Good PR for the church? Naw- but paying engineers who say they're not loud while the church continues to sound proof the building is better PR. This isn't them being a good neighbor- it's continuing to be disrespectful with a smile on their face.
IPayYouPay Feb 18, 3:32 p.m.
I can't stand even the "thump, thump, thumping" coming from the cars for a split 5 - 10 seconds up and down the road - our windows shake and rattle but there's nothing we can do about it. A bass and thumping drum is NOT necessary during a church services. There were there first, ohmygosh, and when you move into an area where you're the newby, try to be considerate. It does matter.
elyhim2 Feb 18, 3:31 p.m.
Why not, they ignore parking laws? Wish someone would file a discrimination suit against city's for allowing churches to ignore rules and hold everyone else accountable.
Published: 2008-01-11 14:37:00
Updated: 2010-06-21 13:53:03