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  • glarg Feb 18, 3:00 p.m.

    "The Board of Commissioners held its annual retreat Friday with mayors from 12 area cities and towns to discuss their needs"

    Does this remind anyone else of Apalachin Meeting where the heads of the Mafia families were busted conspiring how to bleed more money out of their rackets?

  • JustOneGodLessThanU Feb 18, 2:40 p.m.

    @babbleon, thanks for the reply. Multiple floors are easy with domes. (Check out the 3-story “Eye of the Storm” house that’s functional and beautiful) A Dome is disaster proof (safer, cheaper to insure)...pays for itself in 20 years (because of saved maintenance and HVAC costs)...and last centuries not decades.

    Please verify the numbers. Domes cost less to build than conventional schools. (e.g. 18% less in AZ)

    And if you like LEED standards, you’ll love the (much superior) dome energy efficiency standards. The entire makeup of a monolithic dome, with its insulation on the *outside*, is what makes this “thermal battery” so incredibly efficient & cost effective...now and for centuries to come.

    Here are some specific examples of dome schools built (including the private school in Raleigh!): http://static.monolithic.com/gallery/schools/schoolpak.pdf

    School Dome vid: www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssyIEm7B0cQ

  • miseem Feb 15, 7:12 p.m.

    Now, are we talking about the Republican controlled County Commissioners or the Democratic controlled School Board? Sounds like the Repubs are calling for this. Hate to think that they may alienate their base in order to actually build needed schools. And raise taxes. What would Grover and his supporters say? Is "hissy fit" in a dictionary?

  • westernwake1 Feb 15, 7:11 p.m.

    "YES! This! I've been saying this ever since 'save our summers' started to complain. The decisions that have been made over the last six years, such as reducing year-round schools and changing the assignment plan, increase the cost of running Wake Co schools. (Tata even said it in one presentation)

    You can't have it both ways." - babbleon

    'then why do you support race based bussing' - arfamr1007

    Busing for diversity doubles the transportation costs over a traditional neighborhood school plan. It is hard to make the case that you support saving school dollars if you support the failed & costly busing for diversity policy that provides no educational benefit (as proven in Wake County Schools' own studies).

  • arfamr1007 Feb 15, 6:13 p.m.

    YES! This! I've been saying this ever since 'save our summers' started to complain. The decisions that have been made over the last six years, such as reducing year-round schools and changing the assignment plan, increase the cost of running Wake Co schools. (Tata even said it in one presentation)

    You can't have it both ways.
    babbleon

    then why do you support race based bussing?

  • arfamr1007 Feb 15, 6:12 p.m.

    From 2000 - 2009, NC increased educational spending by 10% per capita (inflation adjusted), and test scores went up (including AP, an independent college-prep test) and dropout rates were almost halved. Wake Co was headed the right direction.

    Then Art Pope funded Tedesco and that ilk. Why? Out of the goodness of his heart? No, out of the goodness of his wallet. His private schools will make $$ if Wake Co and all NC schools deteriorate.

    So anytime you see someone post that we should 'shut Pre-K through K12 Public completely down,' know that they are short-sighted and foolish.
    babbleon

    AHAHAHA!! So what about from 1900-2000? LOL. Why is NC in the bottom half in education. I just brought some REAL facts to the arguement.

  • arfamr1007 Feb 15, 6:10 p.m.

    LOL at the education lottery. Bev passed it and then every dollar that goes to education is taken out of the state education budget. And yet somehow republicans hate kids? Didn't bev tell us that the lottery funds would be a SUPPLEMENT?

  • bombayrunner Feb 15, 6:08 p.m.

    Pretty soon we'll be Cleveland.

  • LovemyPirates Feb 15, 6:06 p.m.

    Of course the property taxes are included in rent charges. The owners are rental properties are in the business of making money. If they didn't include the property taxes in the rents they'd loose money. Everyone including those who are here illegally, if they live in a dwelling of any kind pay property taxes. Everyone who shops pays sales taxes and those who buy gas pay gas and other excise taxes.

  • tony57 Feb 15, 5:59 p.m.

    As long as we have this dysfunctional school board headed by Sutton... I'll vote no. 250K to pay Tata to go away, 50K to find somebody else, 100K for a lobbyist.... They don't know what they're doing.

  • timexliving Feb 15, 5:53 p.m.

    "I thought the funds from the lottery were supposed to be specifically for school construction?" tayled

    My thoughts exactly! Back when Easley was trying to get this lottery passed he sounded like parrot, "Lottery for Education" "Lottery for Education". Now even that is a drop in the bucket, or so we're told.

  • iron fist Feb 15, 5:42 p.m.

    More tax for those who can't afford to pay more

  • tayled Feb 15, 5:35 p.m.

    I thought the funds from the lottery were supposed to be specifically for school construction?

  • babbleon Feb 15, 5:18 p.m.

    The Dems have been PURPOSELY destroying the public system for decades. THEY have been in control of it and the results are plain. whatelseisnew

    Oh dear - do I have to bring those pesky facts back into the discussion?

    From 2000 - 2009, NC increased educational spending by 10% per capita (inflation adjusted), and test scores went up (including AP, an independent college-prep test) and dropout rates were almost halved. Wake Co was headed the right direction.

    Then Art Pope funded Tedesco and that ilk. Why? Out of the goodness of his heart? No, out of the goodness of his wallet. His private schools will make $$ if Wake Co and all NC schools deteriorate.

    So anytime you see someone post that we should 'shut Pre-K through K12 Public completely down,' know that they are short-sighted and foolish.

  • whatelseisnew Feb 15, 5:00 p.m.

    "How about we just close all of the schools and don't educate anyone. That would create a whole new generation of Republican voters. Hopefully obvious sarcasm."

    Actually that will create more DEMOCRAT voters. The Dems have been PURPOSELY destroying the public system for decades. THEY have been in control of it and the results are plain. An expensive non-responsive, non-accountable system. See the STATE has an obligation to provide for an educational OPPORTUNITY. That does not have to mean PUBLIC and in fact it is time to shut Pre-K through K12 Public completely down. It is simply a money pit. Tata was actually accomplishing some good things. Unfortunately the IGNORANT voters gave back control of the school board to the Dems and they have course IMMEDIATELY go after every WALLET and PURSE in the county.

  • babbleon Feb 15, 4:59 p.m.

    I wouldnt vote to give them a "dime" until every school is made year round. ... People with children need to start paying their fair share of property tax and federal and income tax. They should do away with the dependent exemptions. superman

    omg - I agree with you on something: all schools below high school should be year round. High school students do actually learn something with summer jobs, so I would protect those, but all lower grades should be year round.

    I would be ok with eliminating the dependent exemption. But I already pay property tax, at the same rate as every other Raleigh resident, thankyouverymuch.

  • whatelseisnew Feb 15, 4:56 p.m.

    "They tried to expand year around which could result in a 25% increase in utilization of the existing facilities. The whiners wouldn't have it so now you are stuck with a tax increase and bond issue to build more schools. You can't have it both ways."

    That is nonsense. they have had EMPTY seats both in year round and in traditional. The real solution to these spend thrifts is to get rid of the public system. This has NEVER been about education, it has ALWAYS been about expanding a system that is an antiquated failing mess.

    "Bev is gone. We are still waiting for your boy McCrory to grow a set and take some accountability. You have a problem with how the state is being run, he is the one you need to talk to."

    Buildings are the pervue of the county. However, I would dearly love to see this State move away from public and go to private. At least there, accountability can exist. If a parent does not like the school they can go elsewhere unlike the fascist run Public system.

  • babbleon Feb 15, 4:56 p.m.

    "Show how they are increasing productivity" - notkidding

    They tried to expand year around which could result in a 25% increase in utilization of the existing facilities. The whiners wouldn't have it so now you are stuck with a tax increase and bond issue to build more schools. You can't have it both ways. jlp

    YES! This! I've been saying this ever since 'save our summers' started to complain. The decisions that have been made over the last six years, such as reducing year-round schools and changing the assignment plan, increase the cost of running Wake Co schools. (Tata even said it in one presentation)

    You can't have it both ways.

  • jlp Feb 15, 4:55 p.m.

    "And those who don't own property pay by what means.." - 3forme

    They have to live somewhere which means they pay rent to the landlord. The landlord has to pay tax on the property he owns. A landlord with any amount of business savy would charge sufficient rent to cover this and other expenses. Therefore everyone except the homeless pay property taxes one way or another. How about use that melon of yours for something other than bashing others you deem beneath you.

  • babbleon Feb 15, 4:54 p.m.

    Because the North Carolina courts ruled that adequate public school facilities ordinances and higher impact fees to fund schools are illegal. westernwake1

    Actually, they ruled that municipalities (like Cary) couldn't do it because COUNTIES are the level of government with jurisdiction, according to the state constitution. So, Wake Co can raise impact fees, but Cary and Raleigh can not.

    http://www.beaufortobserver.net/Articles-NEWS-and-COMMENTARY-c-2011-11-13-256981.112112-N-C-Supreme-Court-upholds-COAs-decision-to-outlaw-Impact-fees-in-land-use-cases.html

  • whatelseisnew Feb 15, 4:53 p.m.

    No. I vote NO on EVERY bond, school or otherwise. Isn't it amazing how the shift in majority on the School board ALL OF A SUDDEN means we must have 2 billion worth of debt added to our backs. Round up the illegals and get their kids and their parents out of here. that will free up plenty of space for LEGAL children. We should not be treated like TAX SERFS to pay for thieves and criminals.

  • more cowbell Feb 15, 4:52 p.m.

    I have no idea. I'm sure that landlords would not think of passing on increased property taxes in the form of higher rents. Would they?
    miseem

    I'm a landlord and no way will I pay my share and someone elses too. Until the fat daddys at the top of the food chain that created this mess, find a method of taxing individual renters, that potential cash cow pit is NOT my problem. I pay enough property taxes the way it is.

  • jlp Feb 15, 4:49 p.m.

    How about we just close all of the schools and don't educate anyone. That would create a whole new generation of Republican voters. Hopefully obvious sarcasm.

  • babbleon Feb 15, 4:48 p.m.

    @allinfantsareatheists : Monolith / dome houses are cool, but they are not always the most efficient use of the land.

    1) Second floors are SMALL, if they exist at all, due to the curve.

    2) There's unused corners, and they really are unused - there's only so many furnaces and pipes you need routed.

    So, domes have a larger footprint than a similar-capacity square school. In a rural areal, there's room, but inside a city, land is expensive.

    On top of that, development / approval of these would be expensive. We already have a set of plans that are re-used for each site, which include LEED standards for energy efficiency.

    re: Natural disasters: we don't have large earthquakes, hurricanes and tornadoes happen, but not that often. I'm not sure that safety advantage justifies what I see as more expense.

    I think they'll be the most cost effective in the long run.

  • jlp Feb 15, 4:48 p.m.

    westernwake1 and babbleon,

    Agreed but try telling that to the Tea People. They can't see past tomorrow much less the future. If left to their own devices, their shortsightedness would destroy the future of this nation to save $1 today.

  • jlp Feb 15, 4:45 p.m.

    "Show how they are increasing productivity" - notkidding

    They tried to expand year around which could result in a 25% increase in utilization of the existing facilities. The whiners wouldn't have it so now you are stuck with a tax increase and bond issue to build more schools. You can't have it both ways.

  • jlp Feb 15, 4:40 p.m.

    "Hey Bev, where is all of that Lottery money that you promised would be spent on education." - ConservativeVoter

    Bev is gone. We are still waiting for your boy McCrory to grow a set and take some accountability. You have a problem with how the state is being run, he is the one you need to talk to.

  • jlp Feb 15, 4:37 p.m.

    "Wow. Sounds like time to move." - Da Toy Maker

    Goodbye, you won't be missed.

  • superman Feb 15, 4:32 p.m.

    I wouldnt vote to give them a "dime" until every school is made year round. Doest make financial sense to have schools vacant 2 to 3 months a year and then keep building new schools just to make it convenient for the parents. No landlord would rent you property for 9 months and have it vacant for 3 months every year. Maybe for property tax they could tax the property and then a special tax based on the number of people who occupy the house or apartment. People with children need to start paying their fair share of property tax and federal and income tax. They should do away with the dependent exemptions.

  • dasheller Feb 15, 4:28 p.m.

    I thought growth was supposed to pay for itself... --SaveEnergyMan

    The only growth is the size of Governmental lies; and the reach into your pockets!

  • miseem Feb 15, 4:07 p.m.

    And those who don't own property pay by what means..3forme.

    I have no idea. I'm sure that landlords would not think of passing on increased property taxes in the form of higher rents. Would they?

  • JustAName Feb 15, 3:43 p.m.

    "including many safety features and technology, you would understand the real cost." - tired2

    Like bullet proof entry glass and steel doors? Oh, right.

  • LovemyPirates Feb 15, 3:43 p.m.

    "Learn to live within your means?" What an uninformed and simplistic response to the very real situation facing Wake County. What do you propose? Having a lottery through which the first 2/3'rds of the students receive seats and the remaining are told, "Sorry, we're living within our means and that doesn't include you." When businesses say they can't find workers who can think and use modern technology, what will the Wake Co. Commissioners tell them? "Sorry, we were living with our means and that didn't include updated technology or enough seats in advanced classes."

  • tootiefrootie Feb 15, 3:33 p.m.

    Nope, not until something constructive is implemented to get rid of the Wake County School Board, especially Susan Evans.

  • SaveEnergyMan Feb 15, 3:25 p.m.

    I thought growth was supposed to pay for itself... Another government lie I suppose.

  • cwmllc1952 Feb 15, 3:21 p.m.

    I sure hope this includes their Rainy Day Fund.

  • tired2 Feb 15, 3:15 p.m.

    cwmllc1952...kimandwill89...not the school board quoted in the article...may want to re-read......if all you naysayers really understand what goes into school construction...including many safety features and technology, you would understand the real cost.

  • sctech Feb 15, 3:15 p.m.

    Wake schools ask for billions every year + lottery proceeds. Learn to live within your means!

  • IPayYouPay Feb 15, 3:06 p.m.

    Stop moving into this area.

  • kimandwill89 Feb 15, 3:06 p.m.

    I'll vote no to any request from this current school board. Every single one should step down.

  • cwmllc1952 Feb 15, 3:06 p.m.

    You have to be pretty feeble to think that any Fees added to development want be passed on to the home buyers.
    Joe says $1B needed and might be as much as $2B.But whose counting? That's the way Wake School System does their math !

  • Wheelman Feb 15, 3:05 p.m.

    The big part of the problem is that somewhere along the line people became convinced that a school that costs $20, $30, $40 million or more was the only facility fit to educate children. This is an unbelievable amount to spend on a school building. Why can we as adults work 8-12 hours a day in facilities taht don't cost nearly as much, but children can't be educated in them? Even if only 1 billion is needed for new schools, that is an average of over $37 million per school for the 27 new schools they say will be needed. It doesn't make sense. I'm all for giving kids a good education in a safe environment, but something about the costs doesn't make sense and doesn't relate in costs to the other things we own. If a 3K sq ft home cost $400k, then we could build 2500 for the same money and it would be 7.5 million sq ft of space. That would make each school over 270k sq ft. I'll bet there isn't a school in the county that big.

  • JustOneGodLessThanU Feb 15, 2:51 p.m.

    When will they learn? Build THESE schools and we can wave our school construction problems good-bye.

    www.monolithic.com/topics/buy-a-school

    Monolithic buildings last for centuries and require almost zero maintenance. If there’s a severe weather event, all the children go to the gymnasium and they play basketball or patty-cake until everything blows over...no worries at all.

    The question is...Why don’t we mandate these structures for our schools? They cost the same to build, they pay for themselves in 20 years with saved heating/cooling & maintenance costs...and they can withstand the toughest hurricanes, tornadoes, wildfires & earthquakes.

    They make great houses too. ( www.monolithic.com/stories/the-eye-of-the-storm/photos )

  • more cowbell Feb 15, 2:43 p.m.

    If everyone that actually benefitted from public schools paid taxes, there would be a surplus of cash to throw around. Seems the "un-naturalized" community is coming out smelling like a rose.

  • br549znc Feb 15, 2:43 p.m.

    I'll be voting no.

  • krimson Feb 15, 2:35 p.m.

    "Hey Bev, where is all of that Lottery money that you promised would be spent on education."

    Who knows, but here is a chance for McCrory to do something huge that would benefit everybody across the board...

  • krimson Feb 15, 2:34 p.m.

    Morrigan: Those are called "Facility Fees" and yes, developers should pay (more) to have proper infrastructure built when they develop a neighborhood... And those costs should go to the new residents that buy those homes/businesses, etc...

    I'm not sure how much our local gov't wants to "raise fees" on developers and/or new residents... Some would argue that raising those costs would make it unaffordable for certain people to move into that area, or make it harder for a small business to function in that area...

    Its a tough balancing act b/w public and private interests...

    On a sidenote, mark this day on your calendar, we may actually agree about something! Have a great weekend!

  • 3forme Feb 15, 2:30 p.m.

    And those who don't own property pay by what means..

  • jackthedog Feb 15, 2:23 p.m.

    Not one red cent until the present school board is sent packing.

  • westernwake1 Feb 15, 2:17 p.m.

    'I thought that RE developers had to pay an infrastructure fee to help pay for schools and roads their subdivisions would require. If not, perhaps they should start, seeing as the construction industry is BOOMING now according to the builders.' - Morrigan

    North Carolina courts ruled that adequate public school facilities ordinances and higher impact fees for schools and roads are illegal.

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