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  • Ex-Republican Feb 5, 2013

    Teachers carrying guns is a bad idea. Let the teachers teach and the policemen police.

  • birkie74693 Feb 4, 2013

    Yep--more guns will make us safer!

    If a fireworks plant explodes, let's build 100 replacements--more fireworks plants will make us safer! If one neighborhood gets cholera in its water supply, let's put cholera in 1000 towns' water supplies! More guns make us SAFER! And Jesus decides who wins high-school football games by giving them to the team that prays hardest.

  • delta29alpha Feb 1, 2013

    So then the financial (and criminal) liability question should be of no real concern and easy to answer.
    bawolf887

    If an officer does the same thing then usually the county, city or state is named in the litigation. The officer is covered by the employers insurance.
    The whole insurance thing would have to be worked out depending on how the job is defined in the bill. If the job is sanctioned as an assignment or just allowed as a private act, I think the employer is held as a co-defendant in litigation.

  • delta29alpha Feb 1, 2013

    My only question is who is liable financially for any mistakes made, because we all know eventually an innocent will be shot by a guard. bawolf887

    Who is liable when an officer does the same thing? usually the city , state or county that he works for.

  • straight forward Feb 1, 2013

    Liability is a whole other topic. If a guard accidentally shoots an innocent person while engaged in the act of attempting to save lives, then he or she should be exempt from any financial liability. Money doesn't bring back lost lives or happiness. That's why the standards should be elevated, and no less than 3-5 years of law enforcement experience should be a requirement. You can train and attend classes all you want, but without true life experience in law enforcement all that training will probably go out the window when an active shooter situation presents itself. Even the most experienced LEO's pucker when involved in a shoot out with an individual...could you imagine what an inexperienced volunteer would go through?

  • junkmail5 Feb 1, 2013

    So then the financial (and criminal) liability question should be of no real concern and easy to answer.
    bawolf887

    Sure, the school would (or district/etc)

    Just like if a cafeteria worker scalded you with hot food... or a school bus driver ran you over.

  • bawolf887 Feb 1, 2013

    Except, we don't.... because that doesn't generally happen in the thousands of schools that have had armed guards for years and years already all across the country.
    junkmail5

    So then the financial (and criminal) liability question should be of no real concern and easy to answer.

  • junkmail5 Feb 1, 2013

    My only question is who is liable financially for any mistakes made, because we all know eventually an innocent will be shot by a guard.
    bawolf887

    Except, we don't.... because that doesn't generally happen in the thousands of schools that have had armed guards for years and years already all across the country.

  • bawolf887 Feb 1, 2013

    Whether the armed guards are ex-cops, ex military, secret service, fbi.... or just regular people, a license earned via a significant training program of both classroom and field training in both weapons and negotiation tactics should be required. And in keeping with our conservative brethren, let the training be paid for with a gun and ammo tax, since accesibility of both is the reason this is an important topic.

    My only question is who is liable financially for any mistakes made, because we all know eventually an innocent will be shot by a guard.

  • straight forward Feb 1, 2013

    How simple would it be to bring in retired law enforcement officers and give them a full-time job as a School resource Officer? At the very least, we know that they have at least 25-30 years of law enforcement training and experience. Or better yet...appoint veteran Law Enforcement Officers as school resource Officers! Let's use the taxpayers money to employ More Officers instead of using it for other nonsense! Sounds like common sense. NOT hand a bunch of inexperienced yahoos a gun and call them "school safety marshals...Really??? How about asking local law enforcement and Sheriff Depts. to come up with a plan instead of asking a bunch of civilian yahoos>

  • junkmail5 Feb 1, 2013

    Has anyone thought about the fact that an outraged student could overpower who ever has the gun and take the weapon and USE IT themselves to cause MORE harm than good-justdontgetit

    Already addressed.

    1) The gun is locked up in this idea

    2) Even not locked up they make retention holsters (someone even linked a video earlier showing how it stops this scenario)

    Apparently even the folks in Newtown conneticuit have figured out the best way to stop an armed bad guy is with an armed good guy-

    http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/Newtown-Votes-for-Armed-School-Officers-189320221.html?dr

  • delta29alpha Feb 1, 2013

    Sounds like alot of people just want to keep the status quo do nothing and just play the odds that nothing will happen. Well, go ahead and pick up the dice and let her roll. Just remember that for all the winners there will eventually be a looser as well. It's inevitable. You can never prevent it but you may have the power to stop it.

  • justdontgetit Feb 1, 2013

    Yep just what we need... instead of KEEPING GUNS OFF SCHOOL PROPERTY let them BRING more onto the property.... Has anyone thought about the fact that an outraged student could overpower who ever has the gun and take the weapon and USE IT themselves to cause MORE harm than good??

    Some people that make the laws need to sit back and think and maybe a little light will go off in their heads and go "Hey this isn't a good idea after all"

  • junkmail5 Feb 1, 2013

    Fine in theory but what is more likely is the extra guns in the schools will simply increase the numbers of people "going postal" and the number of accidents.- Grand Union

    No, it's really not.

    You can tell, because such guards have been in schools for years or decades in much of the country, and what you describe doesn't happen.

    So reality trumps your "what is likely" scaremongering.

  • proud-bleeding-heart Feb 1, 2013

    Hve you seen our salaries and all that we go through???!
    Guns in schools~NO WAY!

  • junkmail5 Feb 1, 2013

    And when the first "trained volunteer" ends up killing a kid due to insanity, stupidity or negligence, what then?- Grand Union

    the same thing that happens when the armed guards already in all the other schools go nuts.

    or the armed guards in banks

    Or the armed guards anywhere else in the US.

    Which is virtually never as far as I can tell.

  • Grand Union Feb 1, 2013

    ""Well why don't we just let the kids bring the guns and the knives back to the school too. Let's just arm everybody. Back to the wild wild west"

    Sounds like we have another "kid" to protect from his/her own self. Did children write some of these posts?"

    Its called sarcasm.......

  • Grand Union Feb 1, 2013

    "Training (same as LEOs) received by volunteers can help protect my children any time they wish to........and I hope they shoot dead anyone who tries to harm my child or any other."

    Fine in theory but what is more likely is the extra guns in the schools will simply increase the numbers of people "going postal" and the number of accidents. Death toll will likely rise not fall.
    Unless these are fully trained cops this is a bad idea and a waste of money......we will always have nuts but what we can do is make it very hard for them to get a gun.

  • Grand Union Feb 1, 2013

    "Actually, they had a valid point because there have been cases when a person brought a gun to school but were talked down.
    Those sort of situations should be part of any training"

    and how much are you going to raise taxes so that you can have a hobby?

  • lasm Feb 1, 2013

    "As the latest gun show at the fairgrounds showed, even experienced gun owners make mistakes that can result in injuries or death."

    That was an individual walking in off the street intending on trading/selling his personal weapon. The "trained" vendors, workers, etc had not touched the gun before it "went off". This explains how even "untrained" adults don't know enough to unload a gun before taking into a place like that-or even how to handle it. Training (same as LEOs) received by volunteers can help protect my children any time they wish to........and I hope they shoot dead anyone who tries to harm my child or any other.

  • lasm Feb 1, 2013

    "Well why don't we just let the kids bring the guns and the knives back to the school too. Let's just arm everybody. Back to
    the wild wild west"

    Sounds like we have another "kid" to protect from his/her own self. Did children write some of these posts?

  • lasm Feb 1, 2013

    "Wow. This is shameful.

    OK, then I'm sure you could "opt out" of protection of your kids by trained volunteers.

  • Pretzel Logic Feb 1, 2013

    RE : delta29alpha February 1, 2013 12:37 p.m

    Well said,,, and Thanks for your service !!!

  • Pretzel Logic Feb 1, 2013

    RE : From a post below : "the off chance that one time in 10 years, a nut or student starts shooting on school grounds"!

    Which is it too many guns? or One off chance in ten years ???

    One off chance in ten years ???

    What are the odds of "one off chance in ten years"

    Please can someone cipher that for me? How would do you do that? by hours, days

    I'm readin' smart but not all that number smart,

    I understand the odds of getting stuck by lightnin' are very high and so are the odds of winnin' the lottery, but people do win the lottery and people do get stuck by lightnin'

    So again,,, what are the odds of : one off chance in ten years?

    Please,,,

    If the threat is near zero, or so miniscule it does not justify owning a gun or school shootings are so rare,,, Why all the fuss?

  • delta29alpha Feb 1, 2013

    They can learn about firearms and laws in a normal conceal carry class. I want them to take extra tactical and situational training specifically geared toward encounters within a school setting.
    Lightfoot3

    True, a tactical course of instruction and qualification could be put together to cover this specific scenario.

  • delta29alpha Feb 1, 2013

    I am an army veteran and and also have 22 years of law enforcement street experience. I have 8 years swat experience and sniper qualified. During my time in law enforcement I was also a certified police firearms instructor. I can tell you from personal experience that there are many civilian shooters that are every bit as competent and qualified to carry and use firearms as any officer I have ever known or trained. The qualities required to be a good officer are not restricted to police officers, they are individual qualities inherent in a person. You can find many civilians who are capable of remaining cool and rational under stressful situations and making the proper decisions. Care should be taken when selecting the individual to protect the children. They should possess the proper qualities and be serious about the responsibility they are taking on, serious enough to take part in advanced firearms training on a regular basis, it's just a matter of selecting them.

  • Lightfoot3 Feb 1, 2013

    "Yes, because clearly a guy who is already in the middle of a school shooting is totally calm and rational otherwise. We don't want to do anything that might upset him!" - junkmail5


    Actually, they had a valid point because there have been cases when a person brought a gun to school but were talked down.


    Those sort of situations should be part of any training.

  • Lightfoot3 Feb 1, 2013

    "A sanctioned volunteer could be required to take the same exact course in firearms and laws regarding the use of deadly force that the police are required to take." - delta29alpha


    They can learn about firearms and laws in a normal conceal carry class. I want them to take extra tactical and situational training specifically geared toward encounters within a school setting.

  • Lightfoot3 Feb 1, 2013

    "Conceal carries are delusional nuts" - Grand Union


    They're mostly normal people, that you encounter every day. You're irrational because your religion is being anti-gun.


    "and who is going to pay for that?" - Grand Union


    School budget, or perhaps the volunteers pay their own way.


    "so why not have Police?" - Grand Union


    Why didn't you ask about who was going to pay for that? Oh right, hypocrisy. But police MIGHT be okay, except I think their general training is not enough.


    "or how about we stop crazy folks getting guns" - Grand Union

    Great idea as long as it's reasonable, and constitutional. But it won't eliminate all crazies, so let's also have a plan to actually STOP them in the act.

  • junkmail5 Feb 1, 2013

    Also, you may end up escalating a situation. It may agitate the intruder- BigUNCFan

    Yes, because clearly a guy who is already in the middle of a school shooting is totally calm and rational otherwise. We don't want to do anything that might upset him!

  • BigUNCFan Feb 1, 2013

    As the latest gun show at the fairgrounds showed, even experienced gun owners make mistakes that can result in injuries or death. Hope this goes ok if passed.

  • delta29alpha Feb 1, 2013

    Let me make clear that of the 240 hrs required police training, only about 16 to 24 hrs are spent on firearms(I would have to pull some records to see exactly). A sanctioned volunteer could be required to take the same exact course in firearms and laws regarding the use of deadly force that the police are required to take.

  • Pretzel Logic Feb 1, 2013

    As members of this site we must continue to endure the mockery of a few trolls who diss and dismiss our decision to own and carry concealed firearms. These folks view firearms ownership as a kind of mental illness. They consider armed citizens delusional and paranoid. We see these insults for what they are, a textbook example of psychological projection. By projecting/imposing your incompetence/insecurities/inadequacies/personal feelings on others you have clearly shown that you are indeed justified in your fear of how a firearm in your hands could very likely be used against yourself or a family member. With that said calling 911 and waiting for help to arrive would be your only option for defending your family, I would agree that any weapon in incompetent hands could more than likely be used to accidentally shoot yourself, a family member or it could also be taken from you by the bad guy and used against you... However, Remaining defenseless waiting for police usually doesn't work

  • BigUNCFan Feb 1, 2013

    The lockbox idea is good in theory but in practice having to take the time to run to the lockbox, find the key, open the box, load the gun if it is not loaded (is the ammo in the lockbox with the gun and is the gun already loaded) may be too much time before the intruder has done his damage.

    Also, you may end up escalating a situation. It may agitate the intruder and he may end up just shooting people out of feeling cornered versus talking the guy out of a situation possibly. We are assuming that the person is just going in and shooting right away. Not always the case.

    Also the volunteer or teacher may miss the intended target and hit a bystander. It's not as easy as it looks to shoot and hit what you are aiming for. Takes a lot of practice and training.

    Finally, knowing how to shoot a gun and actually killing someone are worlds apart. You have to account for the teacher or volunteer freezing when the moment of truth arose to actually pull the trigger.

  • Lightfoot3 Feb 1, 2013

    "Even if it wasn't (and honestly shouldn't be) there are retention holsters that make it very difficult for someone to "grab" your gun away from you while still enabling the wearer to draw it fairly quickly when needed." - junkmail5


    There was a recent security guard robery (on video) that proved this point exactly. The robbers couldn't get his gun, but as soon as he had a chance he was able to draw quickly.


    "A concealed weapon may not help you" - superman


    True. But it also might save your life, as has been shown time and time and time again.


    "You cant stop a train--there are just too many ways that things can happen." - superman


    As thousands upon thousands of cases prove otherwise, you can stop a criminal with a firearm. Just because it's no guarantee doesn't mean we shouldn't at least try to stop them. Giving up and being sheep is not the solution.

  • delta29alpha Feb 1, 2013

    vigilante, person or persons taking the law into their own hands.In other words not sanctioned by law. This word has been getting batted around a bit. But isn't this a discussion about a bill being introduced that would sanction or cause to be legal, this designated person to perform these duties? The only difference between a police officer and anyone else is 240 hrs of training and the sanction of the city, town, or state.

  • junkmail5 Feb 1, 2013

    how long before some knucklehead student tries to swipe a gun from a volunteer? What happens then?
    27228

    Nothing, because in this proposal the gun is locked up someplace.

    Even if it wasn't (and honestly shouldn't be) there are retention holsters that make it very difficult for someone to "grab" your gun away from you while still enabling the wearer to draw it fairly quickly when needed.

    A concealed weapon may not help you. Remember Rambo has the element of suprise.- superman

    and obviously if something is only helpful SOME of the time we just shouldn't bother with it, right?

  • Quagmire Feb 1, 2013

    You recall Pearl Harbour and 911.
    superman

    What country are you from?

  • 27228 Feb 1, 2013

    "It irks me that people ignorant of firearms and their usage are making the laws concerning their use." This is a good point. It should also apply to our governor, who knows nothing about universities yet wants to change how they're run.

  • 27228 Feb 1, 2013

    I know this bill's sponsors mean well, but they need to consider this: how long before some knucklehead student tries to swipe a gun from a volunteer? What happens then?

  • Freedom Defender Feb 1, 2013

    I don't think there should be "gun free zones" anywhere that isn't private property, and at the request of the property owner.

  • superman Feb 1, 2013

    A concealed weapon may not help you. Remember Rambo has the element of suprise. You recall Pearl Harbour and 911.

  • delta29alpha Feb 1, 2013

    @caryzoo..I truly resent your attitude toward my home state and the good people who live here. Obviously you are not happy here in OUR state and find it and it's people below your standards. Your superior, self important attitude is extremely unattractive and particularly foul when you denigrate Those who were born and live in this great state. Since obviously we do not come up to your standards and have no intention of changing for you, then I would invite you to go to a state that would more acceptable to you. Thank you, and don't let the door strike you in the posterior on the way out.

  • superman Feb 1, 2013

    Guess you dont think Rambo is smart enough to know that schools usually have more than one door. How about the large number of students outside in the morning getting to school and leaving in the afternoon. Kids outside at lunch. Students transported to and from school on buses. He could take over a school bus loaded with students. You cant stop a train--there are just too many ways that things can happen. A volunteer at the door is like putting your finger in a dam to stop the water.

  • Quagmire Feb 1, 2013

    The guy that taught my concealed carry class is a school teacher. I would trust him with my kids life.

  • Lightfoot3 Feb 1, 2013

    "But Texas already does it and does it well" - Mustange


    Also, in other states, apparently concealed carry folks can eat soup and salad at Olive Garden without shooting up the place but apparently our lawmakers think the folks from North Carolina can't handle that. It irks me that people ignorant of firearms and their usage are making the laws concerning their use.

  • RadioDJ Feb 1, 2013

    Ahh, so socialism is OKAY when it's pushing an agenda you like huh? Forcing everyone to carry firearms isn't socialism, that's just good ol common sense or something like that. Where are they gonna get the bullets for all those guns? Haven't you heard? We're running out of em. Kinda ironic isn't it? We may end up achieving gun control simply because all of those "folks" ran out to buy up all those guns and now there isn't enough ammo to go around. LOVE IT.

  • Lightfoot3 Feb 1, 2013

    "There's thousands of cases of conceal carry folks stopping crimes" - junkmail5


    According the delusional Grand Union and others of that, uh, style of "thinking", that never happens. The Georgia mom that stopped a crowbar wielding intruder from killing her and her two kids??? ....never happened...


    http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/10/us/home-invasion-gun-rights/index.html?iref=allsearch


    "AFAIK there's basically 0 cases of the police showing up and killing the good guy 10 minutes after the incident is already resolved" - junkmail5


    Well, there are cases of the police showing up and killing their fellow officers by friendly fire. I wonder why the anti-gunners don't scream for the disarming of the police?

  • superman Feb 1, 2013

    To get guns just break into the cars in the parking lot. Rambo wont even have to remember to bring his own gun. The shooter will take care of the guard from the parking lot. You think the shooter is going to walk up to the armed guard and introduce himself.

  • Lightfoot3 Feb 1, 2013

    "The GA school shooting shows exactly why having armed officers/teachers in the school is not a solution." - European American


    No it doesn't. It's a single incident. You can't make blanket statements and judgments from a single incident.

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