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  • sicntired Jan 11, 1:20 p.m.

    If Drake is forced to close (which I don't think it should be), then the hunters in Harnett county need to be stopped as well....they drive like crazy around and through neighborhoods...and are no where NEAR as safe as DRake is......

  • piene2 Jan 10, 5:09 p.m.

    "By all means, PLEASE enlighten us all as to exactly how many of the pistol packing fools with legal concealed carry permits have shot anyone other than when legally defending themselves or others from crime!!!
    veryfrustrated1"

    Fine, for starters let us just look at highly trained professional pistol packing Yahoos. Let us look at the two highly trained professional pistol packing cops that have shot themselves recently. that sounds pretty irresponsible to me. you want more? Fine, let us go to the highly trained professional pistol packing cop in New york City that shot nine innocent bystanders recently. That too sounds pretty irresponsible to me. so the cops are not any better then the rest of the pistol packing Yahoos. We have some six hundred accidental shootings a year. Add to that shootings over disagreements and such.

  • paddie Jan 10, 5:02 p.m.

    Damien, my family knows them personally. I agree with you that you can close the range but not the shooting per se. But you can reduce it a LOT. Obviously my sympathies lie with the home owners who were there first and have to listen to this all day and can't relax on their own property.

  • piene2 Jan 10, 4:57 p.m.

    "That is a shame then. It sounds like this place was here before the people complaining.
    Damien Thorne

    Oh does it now? Does it really? Well how does this sound? Go to Google Earth, pull up the range, go to street view and look at the mostly thirty year old or older houses around it. Than tell us what it "sounds" like

  • JJ Jan 10, 4:55 p.m.

    I have been to Drake’s Landing many times for both corporate events and personal recreation.
    The entire staff is professional and knowledgeable and their primary concern is safety.
    The facility is top notch and is the best place around for Sporting Clays and target practice.
    I hope that Harnett County leaders do not close this facility.

  • Damien Thorne Jan 10, 4:46 p.m.

    "Damien Thorne, The former commissioner or his son own this place. The former commissioners name is Dan Andrews."----paddie

    I appreciate the information, you would seem to know more about it then I do. It seems though if he had any pull this would not be happening.

    I would like to point out though that even if you close the range down you cannot prevent them from shooting there. All they can do is make them stop running a business of it. They can still allow people to shoot there all they want as long as the do not charge for it and the shooters take their own liability for any incidents.

    Probably worse off if they do.

  • paddie Jan 10, 3:46 p.m.

    Damien Thorne, The former commissioner or his son own this place. The former commissioners name is Dan Andrews.

  • Damien Thorne Jan 10, 3:44 p.m.

    "Of course I'm talking about OVER the buffer. From the pictures they had on their website of the rifle range, it didn't look like it would take much elevation for an errant round to leave the range."

    Looking at the pictures on the website as well it would appear there is only a small opening to shoot though, one that would prevent a rifle from being able to shoot at a high enough angle to overshoot the berms. That would be of the 200 yard rifle range.

    Anyone can find a way around anything of course.

  • Damien Thorne Jan 10, 3:39 p.m.

    "But I would like more information on this. The investigators have had over a year to figure this out, or at least rule out the range. Has any type of report been issued? Have they even said whether or not the houses are lined up with the shooting range? I don't know if the lack of info is poor reporting from WRAL or slack investigators.

    While it might be impossible to prove a round came from the range, it should be pretty simple to determine if it was a possibility."----Lightfoot3

    That is something that keeps setting off flags to me. I have never known any law enforcement entity to not forward a guess or at least mention something as a possibility. The sheriffs dept. here has done neither, which leads me to the only logical conclusion that they do not think it came from this range.

    Nothing, no "it is possible" or anything about the range when they said what they did about bullet holes or mention anything about the range being investigated. Commissioners look at that.

  • Lightfoot3 Jan 10, 3:36 p.m.

    "Mine was only to stop a neighbor on a 1 acre plot shooting recklessly." - Damien Thorne


    Ashen-Shugar made similar Johnston County claims. Are you familiar with him?

  • Lightfoot3 Jan 10, 3:32 p.m.

    "To a gun that can NO WAY POSSIBLE fire through a 1/2 mile of densely forested buffer?" - Lou Epstien


    Of course I'm talking about OVER the buffer. From the pictures they had on their website of the rifle range, it didn't look like it would take much elevation for an errant round to leave the range.


    "The rifle range has a downward trajectory with berms all around it" - Lou Epstien


    Give me the elevation of the firing line, and the elevation of the berm. I'm good at figuring.


    "Do the math...it CAN'T HAPPEN." - Lou Epstien


    I can certainly do the real math if someone would finally give me the numbers. But if you can see ANY blue sky above your firing line, then a round can CERTAINLY leave the range. Are you claiming you can't see blue sky when on the firing line?

  • Damien Thorne Jan 10, 3:28 p.m.

    "If you live less than a mile from a shooting range and keep having bullet holes from the direction people fire it does not take too much effort to make a logical *hypothesis.*"---Woohoo2you

    It is a shame that the Sheriffs department that investigates stuff like this did not come to the same conclusion. But then again a hypothesis is based on scientific evidence. What you posted was a "guess" already disproven by people trained to do that.

    -Just so you know, you can fire a gun anywhere.

    "Not legally."-----Woohoo2you

    Yes, and we all know there is no possible way to do something illegally........

    "Is it 3/4-1 mile downrange of Drake’s with a history of bullet holes all from that exact same direction but no others?"

    No one suggested something that silly until you."---WooHoo2You

    Less silly than accusing an entire sheriffs department of wrongdoing or incompetence.

  • Lightfoot3 Jan 10, 3:23 p.m.

    "If I live near an airport and I keep finding plane parts on my roof it does not take a CSI investigation to make a reasonable connection between the two." - WooHoo2You


    What if you lived near 3 or 4 airports? Apparently there is a lot of shooting in this area, not just from the range.


    But I would like more information on this. The investigators have had over a year to figure this out, or at least rule out the range. Has any type of report been issued? Have they even said whether or not the houses are lined up with the shooting range? I don't know if the lack of info is poor reporting from WRAL or slack investigators.


    While it might be impossible to prove a round came from the range, it should be pretty simple to determine if it was a possibility.

  • Damien Thorne Jan 10, 3:21 p.m.

    "Is it 3/4-1 mile downrange of Drake’s with a history of bullet holes all from that exact same direction but no others?

    - My neighbors truck has bullet holes in it, should he blame this firing range even though he shot it himself?

    No one suggested something that silly until you."----WooHoo2You

    No, you did. You basically accused the sheriffs office of either gross negligence or outright bias. The story says that they have 5 reports of bullet damage in houses or cars. Do you actually think that the Sheriffs department would not look at the line of fire from the shooting range and be able to determine if it came from there?

    So which is it? Is the Sheriffs department completely incompetent or are they involved in a conspiracy to help the shooting range?

    It is your choice, that is clearly the only outcome of your suggestion.

  • Damien Thorne Jan 10, 3:15 p.m.

    "Won't it be a shame if the range is voted closed, the people that are shooting (and more than likely the source of stray ammo) in the woods continue doing what they are doing, the noise is still an issue, and this business has closed for nothing?"-----PracticalMagick

    Then the firing range would not have closed for nothing. The closing would have created the situation where those that went to the firing range to shoot had to shoot on their own property which is closer to the people complaining. Then instead of just hearing the gunfire they would actually be feeling it right next door.

    Presently I can not find any restrictions to shooting in Harnett County. These people may be "shooting" themselves in the foot..........

  • Damien Thorne Jan 10, 3:11 p.m.

    "Huh? Someone would just say ‘everyone uses a .308 at the range, can’t prove it was mine!’ What happens if you are cleaning your gutters and notice a bullet hole in your roof….how can you judge the “timeframe?” If I live near an airport and I keep finding plane parts on my roof it does not take a CSI investigation to make a reasonable connection between the two."-----WooHoo2You

    Airplanes have just a tad bit more range then a bullet, and do not by nature have to travel in straight lines.

    Plus the whole defy gravity thing is not something normal bullets do. Maybe you are use to those bullets Gene Simmons had in Runaway?

  • Damien Thorne Jan 10, 2:57 p.m.

    To answer lightfoot, if I remember correctly if they change the zoning to agriculture/residential, then the type of business this falls under would prevent it from being able to file for a business license.

    I wish this worked with kennels. But that being said I am more familiar with Johnston County and only have a surface knowledge of zoning and change of zoning venues.

    But I am starting to believe it is the same thing that happened when I started the ordinances there about gunfire. Mine was only to stop a neighbor on a 1 acre plot shooting recklessly. There was nothing sheriffs could do. Now they can, but the whole county freaked out because of misinformation and guesses. Now the ordinance is even stronger, but does not impede anyone's ability to shoot responsibly on their property.

    This seems to be the same type of situation, with guesses and misinformation driving some people's desire to close it down.

  • Damien Thorne Jan 10, 2:48 p.m.

    "An attorney for the owner, a former county commissioner who was present at Tuesday's meeting, said he did not want to comment until after a decision is made."

    Someone please share knowledge. It looks to me like this statement says "an attorney that was a former commissioner" but maybe I am reading it wrong? Is this place owned by a former commissioner as the poster below suggests?

    Just on the surface though it would seem that a former commissioner would have had enough pull to keep this out of the media and easily sway the Board so there would not be a vote.

    It is starting to look more and more that it is not as people are writing, that this place is above board and safe.

  • Paul M Jan 10, 2:43 p.m.

    "According to the Harnett County Sheriff's Office, there have been at least five cases of stray bullets hitting cars or homes in the area. It's unclear if any or all of those bullets were fired from Drake Landing, but many neighbors say it's only a matter of time before someone gets hurt."

    No Evadence on the holes. They have no clue were they came from

  • Lou Epstien Jan 10, 2:33 p.m.

    "The point is that they WELL within the saftey laws required for hunting." - Lou Epstien

    Irrelevant if bullets are leaving the range. Had a cop once shoot out the sprinkler system at an indoor range I use to go to. How many degrees off target would I need to be for rounds to leave the range?

    "ALL LINE OF FIRE IS AWAY FROM RESIDENTS." - Lou Epstien

    If the fire is north-northeast as was claimed yesterday, there are residents in that line of fire. What street are the complaints coming from?

    You are going to compare a cop shooting a sprinkler....INSIDE.
    To a gun that can NO WAY POSSIBLE fire through a 1/2 mile of densely forested buffer?....Try again son!
    The only streets in that direction are 1/2 mile away. Shotguns and pistols.....couldn't even reach that far even if you fired it up in the air. The rifle range has a downward trajectory with berms all around it.....not gonna happen....can't happen.
    Do the math...it CAN'T HAPPEN.
    Sorry but we don't have magic bullets.

  • WooHoo2You Jan 10, 2:30 p.m.

    "What would be “evidence” enough? DNA, video evidence, social security numbers carved into the lead? Don’t know how bullet holes in houses and cars confuses you…."----WooHoo2You

    Damien Thorne,
    -YES IT HAS TO BE TRUE! THIS IS THE ONLY PLACE ON EARTH YOU CAN FIRE A GUN! SO IT HAD TO COME FROM THERE!

    If you live less than a mile from a shooting range and keep having bullet holes from the direction people fire it does not take too much effort to make a logical *hypothesis.*

    -Just so you know, you can fire a gun anywhere.

    Not legally.

    - I have bullet holes in my barn, should I blame this place even though I am miles from it?

    Is it 3/4-1 mile downrange of Drake’s with a history of bullet holes all from that exact same direction but no others?

    - My neighbors truck has bullet holes in it, should he blame this firing range even though he shot it himself?

    No one suggested something that silly until you.

  • WooHoo2You Jan 10, 2:21 p.m.

    C'mon, WhooHoo2You, let's try to be reasonable. How about a bullet to compare with every firearm of that type used at the range during the time frame of the alleged incidents. How about an investigation, and some results other than allegations. There's just too much emotionalism going on.-Glock Ranger

    Huh? Someone would just say ‘everyone uses a .308 at the range, can’t prove it was mine!’ What happens if you are cleaning your gutters and notice a bullet hole in your roof….how can you judge the “timeframe?” If I live near an airport and I keep finding plane parts on my roof it does not take a CSI investigation to make a reasonable connection between the two.

  • PracticalMagick Jan 10, 2:18 p.m.

    The impression I get from reading the stories and comments over the past day or so is that this area is rural, that people "play" in the woods and do shoot, that some subdivisions were there prior to the range opening and some after.

    Won't it be a shame if the range is voted closed, the people that are shooting (and more than likely the source of stray ammo) in the woods continue doing what they are doing, the noise is still an issue, and this business has closed for nothing?

  • paddie Jan 10, 1:53 p.m.

    Damien Thorne....you need to take into consideration who owns this place. A long time county commissioner.

  • kimisufu Jan 10, 1:46 p.m.

    I'm sorry but there's no way you can hear the gunshots from Drake Landing in Willow Spring. You are hearing something else.

  • pmck Jan 10, 1:25 p.m.

    Which came first? The shooting range or the neighborhood?

  • fourfords Jan 10, 1:25 p.m.

    My husband told me about Drakes recently and I went and enjoyed some skeet shooting. Had a great time and can't wait to go back with my daughters. I found it very safe with professional and knowledgeable staff. I would hate to see them be forced to close. Stray bullets can come from anywhere when you're in the country...

  • Lightfoot3 Jan 10, 1:24 p.m.

    "Don’t know how bullet holes in houses and cars confuses you…." - WooHoo2You


    I've got bullet holes in the cans in my backyard, but they didn't come from this range. See the difference? :)


    "The point is that they WELL within the saftey laws required for hunting." - Lou Epstien


    Irrelevant if bullets are leaving the range. Had a cop once shoot out the sprinkler system at an indoor range I use to go to. How many degrees off target would I need to be for rounds to leave the range?


    "ALL LINE OF FIRE IS AWAY FROM RESIDENTS." - Lou Epstien


    If the fire is north-northeast as was claimed yesterday, there are residents in that line of fire. What street are the complaints coming from?

  • Glock Ranger Jan 10, 1:21 p.m.

    C'mon, WhooHoo2You, let's try to be reasonable. How about a bullet to compare with every firearm of that type used at the range during the time frame of the alleged incidents. How about an investigation, and some results other than allegations. There's just too much emotionalism going on.

  • lrfarms27572 Jan 10, 1:14 p.m.

    What would be “evidence” enough? DNA, video evidence, social security numbers carved into the lead? Don’t know how bullet holes in houses and cars confuses you….

    WooHoo2You

    are you from this area?

    Do you know where these houses are in terms of proximity to the range?

    ...or are you just reading the story?

  • Paul Parker Jan 10, 1:13 p.m.

    Don’t know how bullet holes in houses and cars confuses you….
    WooHoo2You
    January 10, 2013 12:37 p.m.

    I don't think anyone is confused about bullet holes in houses and/or cars. What people are questioning is whether the bullets came from Drake Landing or from somewhere else. It is out in the country and people do shoot on their own private land and not just at Drake Landing. There is a fairly strong possibility that it could have come from some other private land owner, and with the safety precautions that Drake Landing takes it is fairly UNLIKELY that a bullet escaped their range, much less traveled that distance while still maintaining the velocity to do that damage.

  • Damien Thorne Jan 10, 1:12 p.m.

    "What would be “evidence” enough? DNA, video evidence, social security numbers carved into the lead? Don’t know how bullet holes in houses and cars confuses you…."----WooHoo2You

    YES IT HAS TO BE TRUE! THIS IS THE ONLY PLACE ON EARTH YOU CAN FIRE A GUN! SO IT HAD TO COME FROM THERE!

    I wish people did not actually think like that, but looking at what some of the posters write I know it is true that they do.

    Just so you know, you can fire a gun anywhere. I have bullet holes in my barn, should I blame this place even though I am miles from it? My neighbors truck has bullet holes in it, should he blame this firing range even though he shot it himself?

  • Lou Epstien Jan 10, 12:53 p.m.

    I can hear this at my house in WILLOW SPRING! And my dogs are scared to death, too, so I can't imagine how bad it sounds when you're closer to this gun range! I'm pro-gun, for sure, but, maybe scaling back the hours might help?
    JDAmbrosio

    I live in Willow Spring. There is NO WAY the shows you are hearing are from Drakes Landing.....IMPOSSIBLE!!

  • Damien Thorne Jan 10, 12:41 p.m.

    ""GREAT! Lets keep open a place for the next would be robber to come and practice with his new "piece" SHAME ON YOU WHO THINK THIS IS A GOOD IDEA! TELL IT TO THOSE WHOSE LIVES HAVE BEEN CHANGED FOREVER BY THE KILLING OF A LOVED ONE"

    I have had one friend lost due to a gun, he used it on himself. I cannot count however the friends that I have lost due to drunk drivers and illegal immigrants driving without a license.

    To those talking about stray bullets, law enforcement knows about this. If they knew it was coming from this place it would have been shut down or at the very least charges pressed for destruction of private property. Seeing no evidence of anything like that I would have to assume that law enforcement does not believe they are coming from the range.

  • Lou Epstien Jan 10, 12:32 p.m.

    Has it been proven that any of the bullets fired on that range have gotten out of the range? Proof, not rumors. Facts, just the facts, proven by the evidence. Alleged bullet holes are not evidence.
    Glock Ranger
    January 10, 2013 12:21 p.m

    No...because they can't.....because it is IMPOSSIBLE!!
    I'm with you Glock....show me...prove it too me.

  • Lou Epstien Jan 10, 12:28 p.m.

    Other counties don't list a height minimum. Can you point me to the text of the law that applies statewide to centerfire rifles? Lightfoot

    In Wake County it's 8 feet off the ground to take any animal. Nothing said about target shooting.
    fishon

    You are missing the point! The point is that they WELL within the saftey laws required for hunting. If these laws are good enough for the safety of the public for people hunting. They are MORE than adequate for they saftey of the public for this range.
    I cannot repeat this enough. THERE IS ABSOLUTLEY NOT WAY that ANY bullets from THIS range could (or EVER HAVE) hit someones house or car. ALL LINE OF FIRE IS AWAY FROM RESIDENTS. There is no weapons being fired out there that can travel through the well establised (and man made) buffers surrounding this place.

    I guess we are gonna have another magic bullet theory.

  • Glock Ranger Jan 10, 12:21 p.m.

    Has it been proven that any of the bullets fired on that range have gotten out of the range? Proof, not rumors. Facts, just the facts, proven by the evidence. Alleged bullet holes are not evidence.

  • lazydawg58 Jan 10, 12:11 p.m.

    Some of the subdivisions in the general area were already there when the range opened, some have been built since then. The farm has been there in the same family for many generations, long before the housing developments. I live in a nearby town. One of the reasons I live in town is because of the additional regulations that protect my property investment. I also pay both county and city property taxes. It is a choice people have to make. Am I better off paying more for benefits like tighter zoning regulation or having less governmental regulation but paying less in property taxes? Sometimes people regret what they choose but you have to live with the consequences. For the record, the people that I know that live around Drake Landing have no problem with it and are more concerned about hunters in the woods around their homes than anything at the range. Again, follow the money. Who is driving this effort to close it down and what do they potentially gain? ($)

  • Lightfoot3 Jan 10, 12:05 p.m.

    Does anyone know which Harnett County zoning law would shut them down if they weren't under the agritourism umbrella?

  • WooHoo2You Jan 10, 11:57 a.m.

    I can hear shots from the Raleigh pd firing range, but i'm not going to try and shut them down.-makemyday

    How many of their stray bullets have hit your house and / or car? See the difference?

    Note: If the neighborhood was there first they may have a legitimate claim but if the shooting range was there first I think they should have built their houses somewhere else.

  • Walkin Man Jan 10, 11:55 a.m.

    It seems to me that it's the responsibility of the range owners to provide a safe atmosphere for gun enthusiasts and property owners in the area. Can't they make these changes?

  • Glock Ranger Jan 10, 11:49 a.m.

    Miketwo, I am not an uneducated. Read the last line. I failed to do so, and it bit me. I suggest you read it, too.

    prodigalrn: Thieves, robbers, murderers and politicians use strong arm tactics. Mr. O. intends to use strong arm tactics, you need to understand that we are in situation where strong language is the only thing capable of saving us from the ravages of a war of independence.

    Go ahead, pet the baby lion. His mamma will eat your rear while you do that.

  • smcallah Jan 10, 11:46 a.m.

    "GREAT! Lets keep open a place for the next would be robber to come and practice with his new "piece" SHAME ON YOU WHO THINK THIS IS A GOOD IDEA! TELL IT TO THOSE WHOSE LIVES HAVE BEEN CHANGED FOREVER BY THE KILLING OF A LOVED ONE ! DISGUSTING PEOPLE WHO ARE LETTING THIS PLACE STAY OPEN. Of course those who go there can't hear the sounds of the shots being fired... THEY ARE MOST LIKELY MEN WHOSE HEARING DETERIORATES AS THEY AGE! They "hear " what they want to hear and ignore the rest!"

    How many robbers, exactly, do you think are going to gun ranges to practice? It costs money to go to a gun range. Robbers generally steal things, gun range time is something that cannot be stolen. Especially with the amount of law abiding citizens carrying guns that are at the gun range.

    And I doubt robbers are stealing money and things to go buy time at a shooting range to practice shooting. They don't need practice when they rob you face to face.

  • makemyday Jan 10, 11:44 a.m.

    I can hear shots from the Raleigh pd firing range, but i'm not going to try and shut them down.

  • Paul Parker Jan 10, 11:44 a.m.

    NO Miketwo, article 53C does not apply because it SPECIFICALLY says it does not apply unless the range was in operation at least three years prior to the effective date of the article (1997). That means the range would have to have been in operation by no later than 1994. Drake Landing didn't open until 2004, and the range didn't open until 2006.

    Here is the link to the article with the dates that Drake Landing opened: http://www.fayobserver.com/articles/2012/01/13/1148355?sac=Local

    Here is the link to Article 53C: http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByArticle/Chapter_14/Article_53C.html

  • smcallah Jan 10, 11:42 a.m.

    "Does this mean the US CONSTITUTION DOESN'T apply to me because I wasn't born until 1950? The establishment was started in 2000 but the law was from 1997.....so they are not protected by it. YOU NEED TO TAKE A CLASS IN CIVICS."

    While I fully support the 2nd Amendment. It does not guarantee the operation of shooting ranges.

    When you make an argument like this, you make all of the other stronger arguments that a true mean nothing. People see this kind of stuff and focus on that.

  • wcapps2 Jan 10, 11:36 a.m.

    Miss Benson 2012 supports Drake Landing wholeheartedly. The entire staff are extremely nice & ALWAYS put the safety of their customers & surroundings first. It's their #1 priority. Mr. Dan allowed me to promote my Platform "Suitcases For Kids Fostering Foster Children" as a fundraiser at Drake Landing. I was able to raise $600.00 to help out foster children & Children's Miracle Network. Just think because of the big heart Drake Landing has I was able to make a small footprint on a foster child's heart & that means the world & more to me.

  • Lightfoot3 Jan 10, 11:33 a.m.

    "YOU NEED TO TAKE A CLASS IN CIVICS." - miketwo


    Actually, YOU need to READ the actual text of the Shooting Range Protection Act. It SPECIFICALLY states that it ONLY applies to ranges that were already in existence THREE YEARS prior to the date of the act. That would mean the range would have had to been running since 1994 for this act to apply to it.

  • Rocknhorse Jan 10, 11:30 a.m.

    "GREAT! Lets keep open a place for the next would be robber to come and practice with his new "piece" SHAME ON YOU WHO THINK THIS IS A GOOD IDEA! TELL IT TO THOSE WHOSE LIVES HAVE BEEN CHANGED FOREVER BY THE KILLING OF A LOVED ONE ! DISGUSTING PEOPLE WHO ARE LETTING THIS PLACE STAY OPEN. Of course those who go there can't hear the sounds of the shots being fired... THEY ARE MOST LIKELY MEN WHOSE HEARING DETERIORATES AS THEY AGE! They "hear " what they want to hear and ignore the rest!"

    --Would-be robbers are not the only people practicing at target practice. I practice; 1) b/c I enjoy it, and 2) b/c if I am ever in a situation to need it, I am confident in my use of the gun and have good aim! I am speaking as one who HAS defended myself using a gun! I will tell it to anyone, including those who have been negatively affected. And for the record, I am a woman with very good hearing!

  • fishon Jan 10, 11:29 a.m.

    Other counties don't list a height minimum. Can you point me to the text of the law that applies statewide to centerfire rifles?
    Lightfoot

    In Wake County it's 8 feet off the ground to take any animal. Nothing said about target shooting.

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