This story is closed for comments.

Oldest First
  • junkmail5 Jan 2, 2013

    Junk Mail with your infinite wisdom could you please tell me where 16 trillion dollars went? And explain how we can fix it? Because I am stupid? Really Stupid!
    golfnturf2

    Well, we're finally in agreement!

    The current US government has had a public debt for almost its entire existence... It had one from 1789 to 1835... it began to have one again by 1836... the current ~16 trillion dollar one began in 1836, so "where that money went" would take a lot longer accounting than the 1000 characters allowed here can do.

    I can tell you where most of it did NOT go though!

    Unemployment, food stamps, and welfare.

    But those are pretty small portions of our budget.

    so it's weird those are the only things your terrible analogy included as drains on the finances.

    If you'd like to see where the most recent ~6 trillion came from (and where the projected 2000 surpluss went)I suggest:

    http://www.upworthy.com/the-complete-guide-of-what-to-blame-for-our-debt-problem-brought-to-you-by-math

  • golfnturf2 Jan 2, 2013

    Junk Mail with your infinite wisdom could you please tell me where 16 trillion dollars went? And explain how we can fix it? Because I am stupid? Really Stupid!

  • junkmail5 Jan 2, 2013

    You have no clue what Im going for. LOL
    vinylcarwraps23

    Nobody does.

    Which is a problem.

    Because you have yet to present a single coherent argument anybody can understand from start to finish.

    In this respect you have a lot in common with your hero Ron Paul.

    And now you're making less sense than ever, since Rule 40 is a rule specific to the republican party... so your bringing it up in a discussion of 3rd party candidates is frankly bizarre.

    I suppose you had to throw something really weird out there to try and change the topic away from how Gary Johnson having ballot access in nearly every state totally disproves your earlier point...

    Which we also apparently didn't understand.

    Just a suggestion- if NOBODY ever understands ANY of your points, perhaps you should learn to do a better job communicating them?

    (or find some points that make sense to anyone but yourself)

  • Brian Jenkins Jan 2, 2013

    RULE FORTY. Rule 40. JEEZUZ man please pay attention. Do you even know what a delegate is? LOL

  • Brian Jenkins Jan 2, 2013

    You dont follow what Im going for.- vinylcarwraps23

    Sure I do.

    You don't understand how elections work. especially in the US.

    A 2-party system is inherently HIGHLY likely in any first-past-the-post voting system, like ours. Any useful 3rd party is the rare exception in such systems.

    Because generally any vote for the 3rd (or lower) runner in the election is a vote for the winner.
    junkmail5
    January 2, 2013 4:06 p.m

    I very much understand. Rule 40. Any questions? You have no clue what Im going for. LOL

  • junkmail5 Jan 2, 2013

    16 trillion dollar debt? dang that must have been one bad analogy?! -golfnturf

    Mainly it's terrible because:

    A) you had one guy with a real job paying a higher income tax rate than anyone in the US does... and nothing about the services he gets from Sam.

    B) It's unclear who Sally is supposed to represent at all, because nobody gets paid more in government handouts than the guy with a 40% income tax rate (or even a 25% rate), and certainly not for working half-time.... so that part makes no sense whatsoever.

    C) Billy is a bit fuzzy too, since nobody gets paid 50% of the salary of a 40% income tax person on unemployment- so it suggests you don't even understand the program you're trying to compare here...

    D) Billys food stamps are a problem too, since 20% of the daily pay of the top earner is VASTLY more than anyone gets in food stamps daily, so again you seem to know nothing about the program you are comparing

    So other than nothing in your analogy reflecting reality in any way...

  • golfnturf2 Jan 2, 2013

    16 trillion dollar debt? dang that must have been one bad analogy?! Or did it go over your head? its fine if it did happens to liberals all the time! If I was writing a graded document or trying to be professional you would know it

  • junkmail5 Jan 2, 2013

    Craig builds a lemonade stand. He averages 50 dollars a day. Uncle Sam comes up to him and says you didn't build that! I need 20 dollars everyday. Craig pays it with a sour taste in his mouth because that rate is high. Then somehow uncle SAM still isn't making ends meet because he pays aunt sally to work half days making 65 dollars a day, cousin billy who isnt working and hasnt worked in months 25 a day and 10 a day for food stamps. Uncle Sam looks in his bank account and goes oh boy this isnt good. I am paying more than I am making! Alot more! Then Sam and sally say craig pay your fair share and force him to pay 10 more dollars. Then say hes a greedy conservative because Sam is mad! Then at the end of the year Uncle Sam says that he is giving his elected buddies a pay raise?
    golfnturf2

    If we ran the economy like you write analogies we'd be in worse shape than we are now!

  • golfnturf2 Jan 2, 2013

    excuse me craig not sam

  • junkmail5 Jan 2, 2013

    and for an even better understanding of Ayn Rand I suggest this XKCD-

    http://xkcd.com/1049/

    But sure to hover your mouse over the comic and read the text as it really drives the point home.

  • ao2perry Jan 2, 2013

    If I am paying your mortgage or providing for your family, a card in June would be nice. I am so tired of paying for the irresponsible choices of others. I am tired of the bailouts, handouts, and the borrowing required to maintain it. Eventually, the bill will come due. I hope I live long enough to see it.

  • junkmail5 Jan 2, 2013

    You dont follow what Im going for.- vinylcarwraps23

    Sure I do.

    You don't understand how elections work. especially in the US.

    A 2-party system is inherently HIGHLY likely in any first-past-the-post voting system, like ours. Any useful 3rd party is the rare exception in such systems.

    Because generally any vote for the 3rd (or lower) runner in the election is a vote for the winner.

  • golfnturf2 Jan 2, 2013

    Craig builds a lemonade stand. He averages 50 dollars a day. Uncle Sam comes up to him and says you didn't build that! I need 20 dollars everyday. Craig pays it with a sour taste in his mouth because that rate is high. Then somehow uncle SAM still isn't making ends meet because he pays aunt sally to work half days making 65 dollars a day, cousin billy who isnt working and hasnt worked in months 25 a day and 10 a day for food stamps. Uncle Sam looks in his bank account and goes oh boy this isnt good. I am paying more than I am making! Alot more! Then Sam and sally say craig pay your fair share and force him to pay 10 more dollars. Then say hes a greedy conservative because Sam is mad! Then at the end of the year Uncle Sam says that he is giving his elected buddies a pay raise?

  • LKG-Lover Jan 2, 2013

    The future of this country has been writen. Check out Atlas Shrugged, written by Ayn Rand. This is our future. Be prepared, because those who have been given handouts will never, never ever give them up. OUr contry will continue to produce less, just look at politicians, they don't add any value to our GDP, yet the government contiues to hire and expand. America's destiny is already defined. (For those who don't like to read, the first two parts of Atlas Shrugged have been produced in the movie with the same name.) Open your eyes and check it out. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1RxKW-P5V8)

  • Brian Jenkins Jan 2, 2013

    South Africa had 17 people on the ballot after Apartheid. You dont follow what Im going for. Your two party duopoly is a circus show. Same thing sold two different ways to you sheep. Obama must have loved Bush. Then again you neo-con liberal (LOL) love war, spending, and loss of liberty in the name of security. Obama makes you feel all warm and fuzzy doesnt he. Why does he keep a plant illegal? LOL

  • cpdtg Jan 2, 2013

    The way I feel about this They are supposed to work for the people not their party GET RID OF ALL OF EM and take away all their benefits and GOODBY

  • Good Bye WRAL Jan 2, 2013

    We will pay for our social democratic ways. Either by raising taxes or by the failure of our economy and losing the value of our money, homes and businesses. Oh, yes, we'll pay for our debt one way or another. It's who you vote for that makes the difference. Please don't vote for anybody that promises lower taxes nor for anybody that promises more entitlements. Vote for a politician (preferably not a professional politician) that promises to control spending. That eliminates just about all republicans and democrats! So where are our next 'leaders' coming from?

  • Boylan Jan 2, 2013

    I don't see how anyone can be proud of this so called "deal". It at best is a small bandaid on a 12" cut. Congress and the President have punted once again and are only about a half of a step out of a 100 mile trip to solving our financial crisis.

  • junkmail5 Jan 2, 2013

    I'm old enough to remember when having to take public money was shameful, and people still had self-respect and a desire to support their families.- Morrigan

    They still do.

    But since most of the gain in wealth in the last few decades has gone to the top 1-2% of earners it means real wages have gone DOWN for all those good working folks... hence it's increasingly harder to put food on the table from their job.

    Thus why the # of households on food stamps today contains far MORE _with_ a job than without one.

    The other programs (welfare, section 8, etc) remain a very tiny % of the total population.

  • Screw WrAl Jan 2, 2013

    Thank you to the inept leadership that the american voters keep electing over and over again for accomplishing nothing.

    You proved once again you can kick the can down the road, so what.

  • junkmail5 Jan 2, 2013

    Why would Michigan have to write in Gary Jonhson if he was on all the ballots but Oklahoma? LOL Obama voters are so cute.- Vinylcarwraps

    Apparently you don't understand what "ballot access" is.

    He was directly ON 48 state ballots, plus DC.

    He had write-in access in 1 state ballot (michigan)

    He had NO access to ONE state. Oklahoma.

    Here's a map if you still don't understand the above-

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ballot_access_of_Gary_Johnson_in_the_2012_US_presidential_election.svg

    So your claim that 3rd party candidates lose because they're not on most ballots is FACTUALLY UNTRUE.

    That's without mentioning the last few guys with 50-state ballot access get creamed as well (including a billionare so you can't blame money either)

  • WooHoo2You Jan 2, 2013

    "The Tea Party however has made the big mistake of choosing the side with the dwindling numbers......" - Grand Union

    aetius476,

    -Unfortunately true. They chose to side with working, law abiding, American taxpayers. A sadly diminishing breed.

    Err…you mean people who expect to have government services but not pay for them? The people who claim they want “smaller government” while expanding the military and legislating THEIR version of “morality?” That’s your typical Tea Partyer.

    -The future, as you so deftly point out (and O'bama proved to be effective), is in courting the support of illegals and welfare recipients...

    Illegals can’t vote and the poor are the least likely demographic to do so. But I bet it sounded good when you read it off a bumper sticker. Fun fact, Red States use far more ‘entitlement’ dollars per person then Blue States…you may be confused as who the normal welfare recipient supports.

  • Terkel Jan 2, 2013

    "Its also the principle. Many of these programs are just abject handouts with the recipients contributing NOTHING to thier benefits."

    Exactly. I'm old enough to remember when having to take public money was shameful, and people still had self-respect and a desire to support their families. Don't believe me? Then explain how so many out-of-work people suddenly got "disabled" when their UE ran out. At one point there were as many people going on SSDI as on UE each week.

  • StateFan99 Jan 2, 2013

    Before obama raised taxes on the middle and upper income workers, he gave biden and all federal workers a raise. Ain't that sweet. Danny22

    It's also untrue, but so far everything you have posted has been, so at least you are consistent!

    In fairness, when Obama lifted the freeze, all he essentially did was in fact give Congress a pay raise. You can skin a cat 20 different ways, it still ends up without any skin.

  • Nancy Jan 2, 2013

    And the spending continues - who sponsored and voted for this trash?

    "overing everything from electric scooters to NASCAR racetracks to taking the subway to work. Most of these tax breaks were already longstanding provisions — Congress has been working to renew them all year. They’re just being extended again for another year (or sometimes two), at a total cost of roughly $77 billion." - Washington Post

  • Terkel Jan 2, 2013

    "The people that comment on unemployment must not know what it is. It's not a full salary, not even close. How do you think people are enjoying living on that or taking it easy? I'm tired of these uninformed comments." smcallah

    Bravo and thank you! The formula for calculating UE benefits is right there on the ESC website, and involves your wages and how much you've worked over the last 5 calendar quarters. But people who don't know how lucky - yes, LUCKY - they are to have jobs insist on telling themselves it's a grand vacation.

    It's a joy to have to shop hot dogs to find the cheapest per ounce. I love thinking twice before going anywhere because gas costs money. Forget Christmas gifts or a tube of hand cream. Luxuries both.

    And there's the incomparable joy of having no reason to think you'll get a response today from your hundreds of applications, just like yesterday and the day before that and the day before that.

  • aetius476 Jan 2, 2013

    "The Tea Party however has made the big mistake of choosing the side with the dwindling numbers......" - Grand Union

    Unfortunately true. They chose to side with working, law abiding, American taxpayers. A sadly diminishing breed.

    The future, as you so deftly point out (and O'bama proved to be effective), is in courting the support of illegals and welfare recipients...

  • smcallah Jan 2, 2013

    '"No one was promising tax cuts before the fiscal cliff."

    Romney was......'

    How would Romney have accomplished that? The Fiscal Cliff deadline was Jan 1, he wouldn't have been president until Jan 21.

    And what does it even matter that Romney promised? He didn't even want to be president. His son Tagg let that cat out of the bag in an interview last month. Said he never met anyone that wanted to be president less than his father.

    Which leads me to my own question, "how many people has he met that want to be president?"

  • junkmail5 Jan 2, 2013

    Before obama raised taxes on the middle and upper income workers, he gave biden and all federal workers a raise. Ain't that sweet.
    Danny22

    It's also untrue, but so far everything you have posted has been, so at least you are consistent!

    For example, you also just posted this-

    All the presidents combined have never spent as much money for vacations as BHO.
    Danny22

    Which at least 3 different people have told you wasn't true either, as recently as... TODAY.

    yet you keep repeating this lie.

    Why?

  • 5Rs Jan 2, 2013

    "We should be more like Denmark. they pay between 50.7% income tax,sales tax is 25%, yet they are always in the top 3 of the "happiness index" worldwide." - Anderson

    they have low expectations. Unfortunately, we (used to) have much higher expectations for ourselves and our country.

  • aetius476 Jan 2, 2013

    The House has already voted to over turn that executive order. "It isn't happening. Keep up with the news, don't spread news that isn't true anymore." - smcallah

    A small victory for the taxpayer in this debacle!

    How outrageous that O'bama, at the time he is calling for others to make sacrafices, and see their paychecks go down, uses an executive order to give his federal lackees a 2.6% raise!

    They already get benefits and salaries far in excess of most working taxpayers.

    Just spitting in our faces once again...

  • Brian Jenkins Jan 2, 2013

    Why would Michigan have to write in Gary Jonhson if he was on all the ballots but Oklahoma? LOL Obama voters are so cute.

    http://www.examiner.com/article/gary-johnson-sets-record-with-michigan-write-total

  • aetius476 Jan 2, 2013

    "WIC, Welfare, and Section 8 housing combined are like 10 million adults (probably less as there's considerable overlap in the programs)." - junkmail5

    15% of Americans are now on Food Stamps (46 million last count - a record). Add in Medicaid, and you are talking REAL money!

    Don't try to minimize the impact of our expanding social welfare society.

    Its also the principle. Many of these programs are just abject handouts with the recipients contributing NOTHING to thier benefits.

    The hard pressed taxpayers are simply getting tired of bein used to buy votes from a parasitic minority....

  • Brian Jenkins Jan 2, 2013

    JUNKMAIL----check the dates when 'all that junk' becomes effective. Also check the ballots in all 50 states. LOL what a goof. He swears hes so smart but cannot verify simple facts then repeats the lie. LOL

  • smcallah Jan 2, 2013

    " Saving up so I can move to Switzerland. Switzerland believes in and supports gun ownership! "

    Well, you'll have to get rid of all the guns you own now before you move. They are unlikely to let a non-citizen enter the country with guns. And then you'll have to live there for 12 years to become a naturalized citizen. So it'll be a while before you can enjoy their gun benefits.

  • hmmmmm Jan 2, 2013

    They were gonna approve it by burning midnight oil at the last possible moment anyway. It's called the brinkmanship game, they have these late night "emergency" sessions to try to make it look like they actually work, instead of constantly taking "recesses" Translate...vacations. They are already setting up another game to be played in about 2 months. The reality is, that these politicians operate in a way that stress out the American people, so they can look like knights in shining armor coming to save the day. Our political offices need to be made a volunteer only service to our country, no pay, no benefits, no retirement, no status....it would save vast amounts of money. When it is volunteer, we will see how dedicated our leaders are....

  • ech Jan 2, 2013

    Grand union can you do anything other than cut and past,
    thats just like aother cut and past liberal

  • Jimmytwotimes Jan 2, 2013

    Keep praying for Doom and Gloom republicans, we know thats what you want patrotic citizens representing the GOP. Sorry Obama won't allow it, the country will succeed repubs, so sorry for the bad news.

  • Terkel Jan 2, 2013

    "I will take freedom and a 1950's mindset over socialism and government control. Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it."

    Oh, we'll "get it". And how.

  • Danny22 Jan 2, 2013

    Before obama raised taxes on the middle and upper income workers, he gave biden and all federal workers a raise. Ain't that sweet.

  • Grand Union Jan 2, 2013

    "No one was promising tax cuts before the fiscal cliff."

    Romney was......

  • Danny22 Jan 2, 2013

    All the presidents combined have never spent as much money for vacations as BHO.

  • Danny22 Jan 2, 2013

    obama has just got back to his 7 million dollar vacation paid for by hard-working American taxpayers.

  • minimintz Jan 2, 2013

    Wow agreeing to increase the taxes at a bracket above their own salary ranges....big deal, then back to business in Hawaii

  • smcallah Jan 2, 2013

    "Obama used Executive Order to give all federal employees a pay raise, that includes all members of congress. Why? Our country is crumbling and Obama is spending like a drunken sailor."

    The House has already voted to over turn that executive order. It isn't happening. Keep up with the news, don't spread news that isn't true anymore.

  • Grand Union Jan 2, 2013

    "If Obama could do his job that voters were duped into believing he could do, the issue of vacations would not exist."

    There is no issues of vacations except in the heads of the stupid or insane.

    " As it is, his ability to "lead" is non-existent,"

    You can lead a Tea Party Horse to water but you can't make it drink. The country was warned that the Tea party entrants to Congress in 2010 were simpletons and so they have proved to be.

    " hence the issues we are having in D.C. today. (not to mention, corruption, entitlement and unjustified raises)"

    for kicks, why don't you detail the "corruption, entitlement and unjustified raises"?

  • smcallah Jan 2, 2013

    "How sad it must be to live in a world that is not reality. If you can not find a job in (lets just be crazy here and use a huge number) 6 months you are not looking you are taking that "vacation" the poster you repsonded to was talking about. All this does is give the lazy another excuse to sit on their bottom instead of living off their work."

    When was the last time you had to look for a job while living on unemployment checks? When I lost my job in 2001, the maximum unemployment I could get was only 15% of what I was making at my job. I could only collect that for 39 weeks. And it took me 18 months to find a full time job.

    The people that comment on unemployment must not know what it is. It's not a full salary, not even close. How do you think people are enjoying living on that or taking it easy? I'm tired of these uninformed comments.

  • Grand Union Jan 2, 2013

    "just kicking the can down the road ! and still no budget ! why is it so tough for govt function without raising taxes?"

    Defense and medical tech is rising in cost faster than inflation , people are living longer, and the kids need better education to match the tech.

    " cutting a little now would hurt a lot less than cutting more later ! we cannot continue to spend money we don't have."

    So how about we slowly raise taxes back to what they were in the booming 90s? or 1960s? Taxes didn't seem to holding us back then and 12 years of the lowest taxes in generations doesn't seem to have done us any good apart from making the uber rich much much richer.

  • corgimom06 Jan 2, 2013

    Look where Bush took his vactions... On his ranch, His own Ranch, same for Ron Ragan on his own ranch!!!
    fmacmaster

    Irrelevant. The POTUS pays for his and his family's vacations, food, clothing, etc. What we pay for, because the POTUS is in a unique situation is travel and protection. The POTUS cannot simply hop in a car and go wherever he wants. So it doesn't much matter to us if any POTUS vacations at home or elsewhere, we are still paying for the SS to go with them. And W always took AF1 down to Texas, but I didn't hear any conservatives crying about all the trips to Texas he took.

  • Grand Union Jan 2, 2013

    "But somehow it's like 4% of the population keeping everyone back?"

    At the risk of Godwins law, the Tea Partys obsession with welfare and illegals is essentially the same as the Nazis obsession with the Jews. They need an "Enemy" who is visible enough to be encountered on a regular basis but also small enough that the loss of their support does not affect your power.
    If you have an enemy you can make anyone who does not support you into an "enemy" as well thus polarizing the population. The Tea Party however has made the big mistake of choosing the side with the dwindling numbers......

Oldest First