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  • beachboater Dec 5, 1:30 p.m.

    They have already raised the UT rate. I've been business for over 20 years, NEVER had a claim filed against me, and my rate went up this year.

  • junkmail5 Dec 5, 1:02 p.m.

    Of course it worked generations ago, because the tax rate had not be lower. Once the investors are used to a 15% tax rate, why would they be excited about 30%- Bartmeister

    Excited is irrelevant. It would still be a _lower_ rate than direct income tax, so they'd STILL be better off investing it long term than any other alternative.

    They would continue to invest because it would still be the best option.

    As history shows.

    They were 91% under Eisenhower, 74% under Kennedy trayNTP

    Nobody paid anywhere near those rates though- because almost everything was deductible.

    If you look at the actual rates the rich paid it was pretty steady in the mid 30% range for most of the last 60 years, until the Bush cuts...when it dropped several points under 30% for the first time in modern history.

    Returning to the Clinton era marginal rates, an especially the clinton era cap gains rates, would put us back where we were for pretty much everyone on heres lifetimes except the last 10 years.

  • Bartmeister Dec 5, 11:41 a.m.

    Plenty-"And capital gains tax rates could easily be 30-40% rather than 15% "

    nancy-"And the purpose of investing would be what, then?"

    To make money, like every job out there. Plenty Coups

    ================================================

    Easier said than done. If you are in a position of investing money, and the government comes in and says they're gonna double your tax, reduce your return, increase your risk then why would you do it? It's not about making money, it's about the percentage of return that investors largely look at. The same could be said on a smaller scale, invest for a 10% return or put your money in a safe bond or bank at 1/3 the return. Why?

  • trayNTP Dec 5, 11:39 a.m.

    re junkmail5. I'm not "confusing" it. Middle and low-income people pay more in taxes as a proportion of their income than the wealthiest do.

    re cgpvnp. I was making a GENERAL point, not trying to exact. The point isn't what the actual rate is for teachers, but the fact that for the last 30 years, the tax burden in this country has been steadily shifted from the wealthy to workers. Income has skyrocketed for people at the top, along with "production", but the people actually doing the work, actually "producing" for companies and organizations, their pay is stagnant or decreasing if you account for cost of living increases and inflation.

    I'm not sure if the three of us are disagreeing, overall. I agree capital gains should be treated like income. I also believe that the top marginal tax rates should be much higher than even the Clinton era rates. They were 91% under Eisenhower, 74% under Kennedy, now people are complaining about them being in the 30s b/c GOP voters are easily duped.

  • Rebelyell55 Dec 5, 11:38 a.m.

    They still haven't "unfrozen" it though they did give a 1% "raise" but then adjusted the Step pay so that some teachers actually made less. Benefits have been slashed as well so what on earth are you talking about?

    Plenty Coups

    December 5, 2012 10:20 a.m.....Elected officals, exc. in goverment, those who are way over paid. Look at the raise that our state Treasury gave out to her people. Yet those who do the actual labor, teacher and such, don't get nothing. A 5% across the board pay cut by the top officals, and cut in benefits would cover this bill in the next two years.

  • Bartmeister Dec 5, 11:36 a.m.

    Investments don't fund businesses' operating costs... they fund the pockets of the executives, board, cronies etc. Issac Ishmed

    ==================================

    Well that's not completely true, but execs and boards control business. Again, eliminate the incentive and reward and you eliminate a lot of revenue producing streams.

  • junkmail5 Dec 5, 11:34 a.m.

    Doesn't matter what you do or try to do to fix the situation when PROPAGANDA is driving a mass of ignornant poor government dependents through envy.- Thought Criminal WS

    http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3677

    "Contrary to "Entitlement Society" Rhetoric, Over Nine-Tenths of Entitlement Benefits Go to Elderly, Disabled, or Working Households"

    You know, those lazy, lazy elderly...

  • Bartmeister Dec 5, 11:33 a.m.

    No, it's not.

    You can tell because there was tons of investment for the last several generations when the tax was in that 20-28% range I mention (or higher if you go back before 1980). As long as the long term cap gains rate is LOWER than the marginal income tax rate there's a significant incentive to invest.... even if it's "only" 10-15% lower instead of the current 20% lower. junkmail5

    =================================================

    Of course it worked generations ago, because the tax rate had not be lower. Once the investors are used to a 15% tax rate, why would they be excited about 30%, even if that was the way it was 20 years ago? Bottom line is small business needs investors. Find a way that entices investments and doesn't penalize the risk people take. If you were talking a few percent of some step tiered process, it might work. But to double overnight is not the answer. Or at least won't be for me.

  • pappybigtuna1 Dec 5, 11:28 a.m.

    I know of several people that are "double dipping", receive unemployment money and do side work for "cash". These jobs are easy to get, the employer does not pay taxes, insurance, bookkeeping and so on.

    A 15.00 per hour jobs without SS & Income taxes nets the worker about $20.00 per hour spending power.

    I only know a few of these theives, how many do you know? We are paying for this crime.

    How many are swapping contact info pages, so no one has to go look for a job? Bet you know a couple of those people.

    Dishonesty is promoted, under the blanket, "everyone does it"

    Something to think about, when the teachers gets there 2 1/2 month out of school thing, they have enough time to fill for unemployment benies, and get 6 checks of unemployment, good deal, huh!

  • Plenty Coups Dec 5, 11:24 a.m.

    Plenty-"And capital gains tax rates could easily be 30-40% rather than 15% "

    nancy-"And the purpose of investing would be what, then?"

    To make money, like every job out there.

  • Plenty Coups Dec 5, 11:22 a.m.

    "so what on earth are you talking about? - Plenty Coups"

    Doing my best-"Don't think the poster was refering to teachers, but gov't positions. For some reason, most everyone separates the two groups for discusion purposes."

    But regular state workers for NC have had their pay frozen and benefits cut the last 4 years as well. Except for a few positions at the top.

  • PowderedToastMan Dec 5, 11:22 a.m.

    Too many are collecting unemployment because they are too lazy to get a job that might not be their dream job.

  • babedan Dec 5, 11:22 a.m.

    Business aren't paying too little, it was the constance extending of the program that caused this. Too many people wanting to stay on unemployment for 2 years instead of the 6 months that they were allotted. Time to bring the program back to where it should be and tell all those who think they are entitled to be taken care of by the Government, to find a job, any job, nothing should be below you.

  • Obamadoesntcare Dec 5, 11:19 a.m.

    Create one? you mean something like robbing convenience stores? Creating a job for one's self is not all that easy.

    piene2

    You can thank Barrack Hussen Obama for that.....Oh by the way I see wanted signs at Burger King, Mcdonalds and other places everyday. its called and honest living....not entitlement living.

  • Thought Criminal WS Dec 5, 11:14 a.m.

    Doesn't matter what you do or try to do to fix the situation when PROPAGANDA is driving a mass of ignornant poor government dependents through envy. This is history repeating itself. Those evil jews, er rich people are to blame! Nevermind the inept wasteful leadership or cronyism that INTENTIONALLY caused this situation in order to create an opportunity for thier own advancement at the expense of AMERICA. Nevermind the realities of finance and economy, we're going to make those evil jews, er rich, pay their fair share.

    Just remember the ONLY solution is to continue the power of Darth Vader, I mean the evil empire, I mean the democrats, I mean your savior and lord Barrack...

    Too bad the ignorant can't grasp the message or see through the propaganda - forward PAWNS.

  • junkmail5 Dec 5, 11:13 a.m.

    Starting with the millions of free Obama phones.

    Stringbean

    ...which don't exist.

    The program was started by Reagan, it added cell phones to it under Bush, it has _literally_ nothing to do with Obama... and at no time does it pay for "free phones" just discounted phone service, and it's not paid for with federal income tax either it paid by telephone companies.

    But why do we want to double the taxes on dividends and bond interest (treated as dividends)? With income returns at historic lows, and no real options (CDs, MM pay nothing), savers will be punished even more.- aetius476

    You just answered your own question.

    The overwhelming majority of the economy is driven by consumer spending...not consumer saving.

  • Issac Ishmed Dec 5, 11:06 a.m.

    IRS states in 2010 that people making 50-70k paid 7.8% and people making 100-200K paid 12.1% on average. Unless teachers make way more in NC than I think they do--BTW my sister is one and I know she doesn't make over 200k--then no teacher in NC pays 30 %, or has a really bad accountant. - cgpvnp

    Don't get to hung up on income taxes. When Governer Macilrory buys a Big Mac he pays the same tax as somebody making $10/hour with three kids. Work those percentages out and factor those into the end look of the thing......

  • Issac Ishmed Dec 5, 11:02 a.m.

    Investments don't fund businesses' operating costs... they fund the pockets of the executives, board, cronies etc.

  • piene2 Dec 5, 11:01 a.m.

    "If you lose your job, either go out and find one, or go out and create one.atheistswillrule"

    Create one? you mean something like robbing convenience stores? Creating a job for one's self is not all that easy.

  • aetius476 Dec 5, 10:58 a.m.

    "??? 30 to 40% isn't half and if I make a profit of 10,000 on my investments and have to pay $3000 in taxes are you seriously telling me it isn't worth it to make $7000? That makes zero sense." - Plenty Coups

    CG maybe.

    But why do we want to double the taxes on dividends and bond interest (treated as dividends)? With income returns at historic lows, and no real options (CDs, MM pay nothing), savers will be punished even more.

    40% take of a measly 3% dividend or bond, makes the effective rate 1.8%. Why do we want to destroy savers even more?

    The Fed has already driven interest rates to near zero in the name of "stimulus". Many on fixed incomes and those who have saved their whole lives are being hurt. They are not all millionaires! Why the hatred of smart saving and trying to provide for your future?

    I don't understand this insane obsession with consumption and the destruction of saving or building wealth...

  • Issac Ishmed Dec 5, 10:58 a.m.

    Dang, I just came up with an idea... take those multimillion dollar bonuses for the executives of some of those companies who are against paying for unemployment and apply THAT money to the unemployment funding. THAT won't hurt the economy will it?

    You would think that as salaries continue to shrink and that executive bonuses continue to rise that these companies have plenty of money and should be able to hire AND pay towards unemployement taxes... it ain't addin' up... huh??? what??? somethin's wrong here somewheres.......

  • junkmail5 Dec 5, 10:51 a.m.

    Let's fix the problem - we raise taxes on the wealthy, they are asking for almost 40% (about 5%), lets agree to that. Now, with the, "we are all in this together" theme, we ask entitlement recipients to take a cut in entitlements by the same 5%- pappybigtuna1

    The difference of course is the poor don't _have_ 5% to give up.

    If they could give up some of their income without starving they wouldn't be on welfare in the first place.

    That's why we tax rich people more than poor people in the first place- because the marginal value of your $100,000th dollar is much lower than the marginal value of your $10,000th dollar.

  • sunshineonmyshoulder Dec 5, 10:48 a.m.

    The system wasn't set up for a two year extension of unemployment benefits courtesy of the federal government. They passed the bill and NC jumped on the boat with little regard to the problem we're facing now. Don't it just make you shake you head? A little? If ordinary people like you and I can see the consequences, why can't those who managed to campaign and get elected see them? They all seem to need a class in how to say "NO". I know it's hard, but sometimes you just have to say "NO"; that doesn't make good common sense.

  • junkmail5 Dec 5, 10:48 a.m.

    Again, if this happens the advantage and incentive for investing your money is stifled.

    Bartmeiste

    No, it's not.

    You can tell because there was tons of investment for the last several generations when the tax was in that 20-28% range I mention (or higher if you go back before 1980).

    As long as the long term cap gains rate is LOWER than the marginal income tax rate there's a significant incentive to invest.... even if it's "only" 10-15% lower instead of the current 20% lower.

  • Stringbean Dec 5, 10:47 a.m.

    Good ... and cut all the rest of the free stuff. Starting with the millions of free Obama phones.

  • junkmail5 Dec 5, 10:46 a.m.

    "But social security is EASY to fix- remove the income cap on the SS tax. Done. It's solvent pretty much forever with that one change."

    Wrong. Why is it people believe that the Government seizing more money fixing problems- Whatelseisnew

    Math, mainly.

    The program does not take in enough money.

    Because it stops applying the tax after about 100k in income.

    Remove that cap and the program is fully solvent, forever.

    Simple solution to a simple problem, with no negative economic impact.

    As to cap gains- it never makes sense to make the rate higher than the marginal income tax rate... and makes some sense to make it less for long-term cap gains (not short term).

    But making it 25% instead of 15% wouldn't impact investment at all, since it'd STILL be lower than the marginal tax rate at those income levels, and it'd provide needed revenue, and make overall tax rates look a bit closer to what they're intended to be (progressive, with a larger burden on the wealthy)

  • cgpvnp Dec 5, 10:46 a.m.

    IRS states in 2010 that people making 50-70k paid 7.8% and people making 100-200K paid 12.1% on average. Unless teachers make way more in NC than I think they do--BTW my sister is one and I know she doesn't make over 200k--then no teacher in NC pays 30 %, or has a really bad accountant.

  • Sassie Licks Penis Dec 5, 10:40 a.m.

    I support a fix in the unemployment benefits. I've got no problem reducing the period you can be on benefits. 26 weeks is too long. Unemployment insurance always has been and should only be a small safety net to help you get back on your feet. 6 months without a job and something is wrong. This is from somebody who's been unemployed due to restructuring twice since 2007. I was never out of work for more than 2 months. Now I will say that I'm not comfortable with cutting the maximum per week payout by half. That money would hurt the poor the most.

  • DoingMyBest Dec 5, 10:38 a.m.

    "so what on earth are you talking about? - Plenty Coups"

    Don't think the poster was refering to teachers, but gov't positions. For some reason, most everyone separates the two groups for discusion purposes.

  • hp277 Dec 5, 10:38 a.m.

    "Unfortunately what got them in trouble was they changed unemployment benefits from a 26 week maximum to a 99 week maximum. The system was never designed for that. Now its hugly in debt. Step 1 would be to go back to operating the system as it was designed to be."

    Riddickfield

    Any extension beyond the state's 26 weeks is paid by the feds, not out of the state fund that is billions in the red. The problem is that instead of saving for a rainy day, the legislature cut the UI tax rate several times in the 90s because businesses said there was enough money in the fund and they needed a tax break.

    Businesses got their tax break, we had a rainy day, UI claims skyrocketed during the recession and depleted the fund. Now, businesses are complaining about having to repay the debt and rebuild the trust fund, so the legislature is going to give them another tax break and stick it to future unemployed workers.

    Once again, the little guy gets screwed.

  • rand321 Dec 5, 10:37 a.m.

    the small business community does not need additional burdens. with obamacare, new regulations, tax rates higher than GE, etc.; creating jobs is harder than ever.

  • teleman60 Dec 5, 10:34 a.m.

    Let's cut taxes some more!! 14% for all income over $250000 -- the Romney Bracket. No more business taxes for unemployment. No more taxes for roads. No taxes at all on the first $50,000-HOGWASH!!

    Americans are paying the lowest percentage in taxes in the last 50 YEARS!!! A large number of people don't know that..

    We can't run the country on TAXCUTS!! We can't spend BILLIONS on the military while the country's infrastructure is falling apart. We can't spend billions on taxcuts for millionaires and then have to borrow to run the country.

    We should just bite the bullet and let all the taxcuts expire.

    Start hunting the people stealing federal money like they do child molesters. The waste and fraud alone would pay off billions on our debt. Do the crooks outnumber the FBI?

  • UNC006 Dec 5, 10:33 a.m.

    But social security is EASY to fix- remove the income cap on the SS tax. Done. It's solvent pretty much forever with that one change. junkmail

    Ahh yes, more "revenue" to squander. With Obamanomics in full force, more cites and states are headed toward insolvency. How is it that with no budget in 3 years that Bo and Dem Senators are qualified to say a word about tax revenues- we spend much more than we are bring in regardless of increasing taxes on the evil rich. We're going broke- hello...

  • Bartmeister Dec 5, 10:32 a.m.

    Tax cap gains at 35-40% and you would kill investment in the US. Investment is risk and if you are only going to earn 60 cents of every dollar invested, then there is no incentive to take the risk.

    cgpvnp

    ==========================================

    Lower income classes that can't afford to invest and others that simple don't understand how to invest don't get this concept. Without investments from the private sector, business crumbles and the economy follows. Let's tax the rich guy cause he has more money to lose. A very dangerous and incorrect concept.

  • pappybigtuna1 Dec 5, 10:29 a.m.

    as stated, "we are all in this together" that is os much baloney.

    Let's fix the problem - we raise taxes on the wealthy, they are asking for almost 40% (about 5%), lets agree to that. Now, with the, "we are all in this together" theme, we ask entitlement recipients to take a cut in entitlements by the same 5%

    A little in & out; up & down, over and under - Obama is happy, I'm not happy, your not happy, they are not happy, no one is happy - but obama is still happy

  • Uhavenoclu Dec 5, 10:29 a.m.

    Looks like the lazy ego people who want to work only if they make $50 an hour will have to go and look for any kind of job.

    Money is money people go look for there are jobs everywhere.

  • Bartmeister Dec 5, 10:27 a.m.

    But they pay a much lower Cap gains tax rate these days (15%)... and a much larger % of rich peoples money comes from cap gains than from regular income... hence their effective total rate seems lower than it should be. The solution is to go back to a higher capital gains rate (which spent the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s between 20 and 28%)

    ============================

    Again, if this happens the advantage and incentive for investing your money is stifled.

  • ncouterbanks69 Dec 5, 10:26 a.m.

    The solution is to go back to a higher capital gains rate (which spent the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s between 20 and 28%)

    The real solution is to go to a flat tax. That way EVERYONE pays their own share.

  • whatelseisnew Dec 5, 10:25 a.m.

    "The solution is to go back to a higher capital gains rate (which spent the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s between 20 and 28%)"

    Nope, the solution is to set a goal to cut the Federal Government down to 1/3 of its current size. It does not matter how much money these politicians seize. They will simply just grow Government bigger and demand more money. Look at what the DEMS did during all the economic turmoil. They created another huge handout pogrom and along with it GREW the size and span of control of the Federal Government. There is not enough wealth on the planet to support the insanity of LEFTIES.

  • ncouterbanks69 Dec 5, 10:25 a.m.

    Tsk Tsk Tsk, such a great deal of negativity on this board. If you lose your job, either go out and find one, or go out and create one. The problem is too many people refuse to come down off their high horses. They have no job yet look down their noses at jobs "beneath" them. If you have no job, you might think about cleaning someones house, raking leaves or digging ditches.

    OMG we agree. Maybe I need to rethink my position :)

  • Patrick Henry Dec 5, 10:24 a.m.

    Do away with unemployment benefits totally. Let it become a private sector insurance option. Then, if you want to save for that type of thing, you can, or you can take out an insurance policy to cover you if you lose your job. Otherwise, roll the dice and take your chances.

    I'm tired of my money going to support other people.

  • Nancy Dec 5, 10:23 a.m.

    The bottom line on this bill due for over extension of the unemployment benefits is who is going to pay. Why should business have to pay the bill? What logic is there in that?

    There was a time when such a tax was not on businesses to provide unemployment - and there was such a time that the feds and the state governments did not hold sway over whether they could (at businesses expense) extend those unemployment benefits at will then expect business to pick up the tab.

    Businesses did not make the decision to extend 26 weeks to over 90 weeks of benefits.

  • Bartmeister Dec 5, 10:22 a.m.

    If you lose your job, either go out and find one, or go out and create one. The problem is too many people refuse to come down off their high horses. They have no job yet look down their noses at jobs "beneath" them. If you have no job, you might think about cleaning someones house, raking leaves or digging ditches. After all, hard working Hispanics have NO problem coming here and finding work, starting painting and landscaping companies and doing what needs to be done. Unfortunately many Americans who lose a job have neither decent educations, or lack the ability to adapt. atheistswillrule

    ========================================

    PLEASE NOTE: This may be the only time I agree with this poster, but nailed heads on.

  • whatelseisnew Dec 5, 10:22 a.m.

    "The cost of health care in this country is continuing to skyrocket. The purpose of the ACA was to try to cut those costs while, at the same time, provide more and better coverage to more people. Waste in many forms is rampant in the health care industry"

    The not affordable health care act had nothing to do with health care. It is purely about the Government seizing more money and using that money to further seize control of the people in this country. Sadly, many people that vote for these lefties do not get that. The lefties that do get that either personally benefit or they are part of the elite control group. It is interesting how it is okay to be Wealthy so long as you appear to support leftist pogroms.

  • Plenty Coups Dec 5, 10:21 a.m.

    plenty-"And capital gains tax rates could easily be 30-40% rather than 15%"

    anderson-"so why bother to invest if almost half of your income is going to be taken by the government?"

    ??? 30 to 40% isn't half and if I make a profit of 10,000 on my investments and have to pay $3000 in taxes are you seriously telling me it isn't worth it to make $7000? That makes zero sense.

  • Nancy Dec 5, 10:20 a.m.

    "And capital gains tax rates could easily be 30-40% rather than 15% "

    And the purpose of investing would be what, then?

  • Plenty Coups Dec 5, 10:20 a.m.

    rebelyell-"You will never see our elected leaders freeze pay or cut benefits, even if the state is broke. Look what they did last year and the year before that."

    ??? State teacher pay has been frozen for the last 4 years. They still haven't "unfrozen" it though they did give a 1% "raise" but then adjusted the Step pay so that some teachers actually made less. Benefits have been slashed as well so what on earth are you talking about?

  • whatelseisnew Dec 5, 10:19 a.m.

    "But social security is EASY to fix- remove the income cap on the SS tax. Done. It's solvent pretty much forever with that one change."

    Wrong. Why is it people believe that the Government seizing more money fixing problems. It does not. It simply creates new problems or makes existing problems worse. I hope most of the wealthy people seek every way possible to avoid paying taxes. SS should not exist. It does, the Government mishandled it and now the solution to this problem the Government created is to steal money from a specific group of people. That is just a form of persecution. Here is a different way. Everyone pays twenty thousand dollars at a minimum into the system. If you can not pay it, then the Government starts seizing your property and if you have children they will have to pay in your stead. Seems reasonable. We want to create a prison like country, let us go all the way.

  • cgpvnp Dec 5, 10:18 a.m.

    They could easily afford to pay say 39%(the old rate) rather than 35%. And capital gains tax rates could easily be 30-40% rather than 15% which is less than what the bottom 20% of our nation pays in TOTAL taxes. A progressive tax system recognizes that the poor and middle class have less disposable income.

    Tax cap gains at 35-40% and you would kill investment in the US. Investment is risk and if you are only going to earn 60 cents of every dollar invested, then there is no incentive to take the risk.

  • miketroll3572 Dec 5, 10:17 a.m.

    "I am personally thinking about hiring a lawyer and sueing the government to get all my SS paid in for the last 46 years given back to me" Heavenly

    I am with you. Not only that but being without a job because of this failed economy that obama created, and now they want to cut benefits back, and thats after working over 33 yrs. Things are getting really bad!

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