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pdbullard Dec 7, 1:00 p.m.
afk27503 Dec 3, 4:56 p.m.
All of these politicians in this state are so self-serving in their interests...they are not working in any way for the good of the people of the state. While Perdue's approach is suspect, and all used as a park may not be best, the Repubs are simply looking for opportunities to sell to their developer cronies for the highest price and then likely get their own palms greased.
singularity1111 Dec 3, 3:54 p.m.
Their agenda is to have a destination park. This has been well known for years. A destination park would benefit all of NC, just as the mental hospital did. The park would also drastically raise the value of all the property surrounding. Plus, it would effectively link pullen park with the golf course.
What would be the downside? What would we do with the property?
Ready2Taxi Dec 3, 3:18 p.m.
I don't understand the Governor's last minute haste. The original grant of that land to the state was specifically for a mental health facility, which benefited all citizens of the state for a century. Now the Governor wants give the City a 99 year ground lease, the net present value of which is a faction of the appraised value offered by the City. Which would you rather have - $50MM cash next Tuesday or $50MM spread out over the next century? Makes me wonder what the Governor's and Visionarys' real agenda is.
singularity1111 Dec 3, 2:32 p.m.
I don't understand the opposition. What good would that plot of land be to the rest of the state no matter what was there? Makes me wonder what Americans for Prosperity's real agenda is.
atheistswillrule Nov 30, 6:34 p.m.
Well I don't know. But if Bev is for it, then it must be bad so I'm against it. Short sighted I know, but probably not too far off. Bartmeister
Well, Bev is against gay marriage, SO, I guess NOW you will be for it ms. Bart?
atheistswillrule Nov 30, 6:33 p.m.
Where is the benefit to the rest of the state? (and don't try to sell the idea of a "destination park" since the majority of users will be from the Triangle area). ps8611
One would assume that ALL residents of NC had access to Dix Hill when it was a mental hospital, correct? All residents of NC will have access to Dix Hill when it is made into a park. How can you not see the logic in that. Anything that makes Raleigh a better place reflects attractively on the entire state.
Bartmeister Nov 30, 5:55 p.m.
Well I don't know. But if Bev is for it, then it must be bad so I'm against it. Short sighted I know, but probably not too far off.
TVs_Deceit Nov 30, 5:39 p.m.
so dwntownboy has a vested interest given that's he's been living in the neighborhood for 20 years.
hedgy_one has an vested interest living there as well. So, you've been a member "friends of the park" for years? The State closed it down too?
You've proved a couple of my points. The Democratically controlled State cleared out the hospital for their Democratic friends that have buying up the Boylan Heights property.. like I basically pointed out. And that's the plan they've had for years like you've been a member of "Friends of the Park". What park. There's no park there now. Oh yeah, that's why the hospital was closed and the mentally-ill shipped away to Butler so you could have a big park basically to yourselves over there.
I was born and raised in Raleigh, I've been here for 50 years and grew up close to the area. I know how it works. No need to waste your "we really preferred a hospital for the mentally-ill in our park that we've been planning for years" on me.
beachboater Nov 30, 5:27 p.m.
"I've never known politics in this state or public service in this state to be this acidic, and I find it sad for the people of North Carolina, who expect more from their leaders, and I expect more," she said. "I wonder sometimes if maybe somebody's trying out for the Grinch in the Christmas play."
The people do expect more Ms. Purdue. That is why the composition of the legislature and governor's mansion has changed so drastically in the last 2 years. People are tired of the good ole boy democrat network that has been in power for the last 100 years.
We as taxpayers want to see some value for our tax dollars.
Barfly Nov 30, 5:17 p.m.
Where in the hell were all of these visionaires when the mental health system crumbled?
Barfly Nov 30, 5:07 p.m.
LOL. The state will their get money, at our expense. So will the city and/or county. It's our money, not the corrupt politicians and elitists trying to sell this destination park lie. Sorry if you fail to make that connection.
dwntwnboy Nov 30, 3:44 p.m.
"ginned up opposition" is an appropriate term, they sound drunk. They just want to stop ANYTHING a Democrat might do that the people might enjoy. All they want to do is sell sell sell, how short sighted of them. They just want to help pad the pockets of the rich developers who can't even make the land already under development downtown work. I can't count the number of construction jobs that were started, planned etc and never got off the ground. The "L" building on Davie/McDowell Streets is a prime example. The market doesn't need or want any more offices or apartments in the area. There is a parking garage and foundation for a large building on Fayetteville St that never has been built....and they want to sell a pristine piece of tranquil land to developers that already have bitten off more than they can develop. How very greedy of them.
dwntwnboy Nov 30, 3:18 p.m.
" the state needs to get money from this."- if they lease it to the city, then they will get money EVERY year, and STILL own the land. It's a win win. If they sell it now, it's a one and done deal, no more money coming in from that land unless it's from taxes- and that's ONLY if it's developed properly. From what I've seen lately, "proper" development is a lost art, all they want to do now is level evrything growning and put up beige buildings- YUCK! Why waste the land on something the city doesn't need- more offices and empty apartments.
dwntwnboy Nov 30, 3:15 p.m.
"There are over 200 parks in the city of Raleigh"- but NOTHING like what Dix can be. Some of those parks you speak of are so small you can barely fit 4 cars into them. This is a chance to have a green space for generations to come. Would take us 100+ years to outgrow a park the size of Dix.
dwntwnboy Nov 30, 3:14 p.m.
"Another Bev Purdue pet project before she leave office"- actually it was a process started LONG before Bev got into office, she is just the one who can finish what was started LONG ago.
dwntwnboy Nov 30, 3:13 p.m.
"Allow me to remind all that it IS across the road from Central Prison - yes, the one that causes lights to dim and protesters to come out."- a bit of a stretch don't ya think? Only a small portion of the land is across from Central Prison- the rest is on the Lake Wheeler cooridor into downtown and is filled with fantastic views of the capital city. As for the "lights dimming"- well, NC hasn't used the elctric chair is some time. In the 20 years I've lived within a 5 minute walk of the prison, only 3 times have there EVER been any protests larger than 5-7 people and the lights have NEVER dimmed because of anything going on at the prison. As far as neighbors go, the prison is a nice quiet neighbor with no loud parties or activities to bother anyone.
hedgy_one Nov 30, 3:10 p.m.
"The neighborhood folks wanted to run the mentally-ill out of their site and build themselves a park."
That statement is so not true! The State closed Dorothea Dix Hospital. I have been associated with the Friends of Dorothea Dix Park for several years, and I can assure you that we would have preferred that the hospital stay open to serve the mentally ill in our area. However, if that is not what is going to be done, then let's use it as a park in honor of Dorothea Dix and the mentally ill - Ms. Dix herself advocated for outdoor spaces as revigorating for those with mental health problems. Why didn't we hear these arguments when Jim Hunt GAVE the other 2200 acres to NCSU for their Centennial Campus, golf course, hotel, chancellor's residence, condos, etc.?
davidgnews Nov 30, 2:18 p.m.
Dallas Woodhouse, apparently on the Koch Brothers payroll, is making these statements. Consider the (out of state meddling) source. Well, almost out-of-state. Art Pope is on their board as well.
storchheim Nov 30, 1:43 p.m.
Several people have said it would be a great public park.
It already is. You can drive over there, park in designated lots, and bring your dog, kids, frisbee, soccer team. Free, except for some reserved lots there are no restrictions, no one's going to ask you what you're doing there.
Allow me to remind all that it IS across the road from Central Prison - yes, the one that causes lights to dim and protesters to come out. Any plans to develop it will be money thrown away. Would YOU buy a condo across from a barbed-wire-festooned building filled with felons?
JoCo50 at MXR Nov 30, 12:59 p.m.
It's funny that all the feel good liberals are saying nothing about the idea of stealing this land from the mentally ill citizens of NC.
If it was a gay bar or an HBCU that was being shut down to make room for a(nother) park, you'd all be screaming bloody murder.
Hippy_mom Nov 30, 12:55 p.m.
pirate1, there's only so much of Raleigh not paved completely over. Have you actually visited (not as an patient)? It's an absolutely gorgeous place and should remain a place true to the vision or Dorothea Dix. I don't know what disturbs me more, the thought of more robo-calls or the thought of beige condos in an already crowded market. There are plenty of urban-dweller condos that have gone on the auction block just recently.
ps8611 Nov 30, 12:55 p.m.
As somebody who lives outside the Triangle area, it is offensive that a state-owned property could essentially be handed over to a community that is already the beneficiary of so much state-owned infrastructure. Where is the benefit to the rest of the state? (and don't try to sell the idea of a "destination park" since the majority of users will be from the Triangle area). If the City of Raleigh wants the property, then the Council of State should ensure they pay fair market value whether it's a lease or outright sale. How badly does the City of Raleigh and/or Wake County want the property? Let them justify the expenditure at fair market value to their taxpayers. There are too many people in other parts of the state who deserve to benefit from re-purposing the property.
dontstopnow Nov 30, 12:54 p.m.
Another Bev Purdue pet project before she leave office with that 1.5 million in campaign contributions that she don't have to return. Yeah she is a peice of work that one.
TVs_Deceit Nov 30, 12:43 p.m.
27228 - Yes I know. They're objecting to all of North Carolina subsidizing a hundreds-of-acres park for use mainly by a few neighborhood people.
Your point that it's comparable to subsidizing necessary roads in rural areas is nonsensical.
Personally, I object to the fact that they thought they had the right to change the health focus as was designated when the land was donated.
The neighborhood folks wanted to run the mentally-ill out of their site and build themselves a park.
But, did they have that right given the stipulations of the original donation? I doubt it.
If it was donated for the benefit of those who need mental health care, that should be the only use. Or else, return it to the family who originally owned it.
If I was a relative of Dix and the parameters governing the original donation were being violated, I'd probably sue for the property's return to the family.
happymom Nov 30, 12:40 p.m.
Let me say upfront that I'm a liberal Democrat AND I think Perdue's plan is idiotic.
It makes no sense financially. It's not about having a park. I'm all for parks... I just think it's ridiculous for the state to *give away* such a valuable asset and commit to the incredible expense of relocating the DHHS employees who currently work on the campus. It will cost many, many millions to move entire divisions to another location. And for what reason? Why is it necessary to incur this unneeded expense at a time when our state budget is already strained?
cableprncss Nov 30, 12:39 p.m.
"The best use of the land is to house all state employees (there are already 1700 employees out there) and stop leasing buildings downtown. Keep the healing place there and build a new mental health facility since community services are lacking, waiting times for psych beds are days to weeks, and children are being shipped to other states because there is not enough beds at our state facilities. There is already maintenace for the campus so there would be no extra cost in maintaining Dix Hill. Oh wait..this makes sense so NC state won't do it. Whatever the Council of State decides to do with the land at least set out a plan for the public to see where our state tax dollars are going before making behind closed doors deals. Bev...transparency hahaha.
Wow nic, someone else actually gets it besides me. No one is the least bit concerned with the number of state employee jobs that will be eliminated by moving all the employees off of Dix hill. Nor does anyone understand the trouble
JustAName Nov 30, 12:35 p.m.
"Pullen Park just isn't big enough for everyone anymore." - dwntwnboy
There are over 200 parks in the city of Raleigh.
Pirate01 Nov 30, 12:32 p.m.
A park will never make as much money for the taxpayers and selling the land outright. Selling it on the market is the right thing to do with any and all state land that is no longer needed. Maybe home development with required green space but the state needs to get money from this.
oakcity Nov 30, 12:22 p.m.
" the capital city and rolls up it sidewalks at dark. "
pretty sure you're in the wrong town, downtown raleigh after dark is hopping.
dwntwnboy Nov 30, 12:18 p.m.
"all efforts to make this a Park that will bare her name, should be stopped. She does not deserve to have anything named after her."- what are you babbling on about? No one wanted or even mentioned naming a park after Perdue. If anything, it would and SHOULD be called Dorothea Dix Park- in homage to the woman and history of the land. It's a great idea and should be followed through on. The state would STILL own the land, but wouldn't be the ones in charge of taking care of it, it would be a money maker year after year for the state rather than a short sighted sell to the highest bidder right now mentality.
dwntwnboy Nov 30, 12:11 p.m.
"There isn't much to do downtown to begin with"- then you aren't paying attention. There is almost something EVERY weekend downtown. I live downtown and am amazed at the number of events that are always going on. Just because YOU don't know about them, doesn't mean there isn't much to do downtown. Try it sometime, you might find there are lots of fun things to do.
xxxxxxxxxxxxx Nov 30, 11:58 a.m.
"RaleighHunts, if you don't believe people don't use Umstead you must not go there very often. I go there a lot and it is a very well used park."
I agree. I go to Umstead fairly often and it is very well used, as is Shelley Lake.
However, I do agree with the people who think there could be a happy medium. 325 acres is a lot of property and could support a nice sized city park along with state DHHS facilities and maybe homes or commercial development.
Crumps Br0ther Nov 30, 11:55 a.m.
There isn't much to do downtown to begin with another park won't fix that. A theme park or something for tourism might be in order. I have friends who visit from out of state and they cannot believe Raleigh is the capital city and rolls up it sidewalks at dark. Even the ampitheater is losing money
xxxxxxxxxxxxx Nov 30, 11:54 a.m.
"They should develope this land to hopefully create jobs and grow the economy of Raleigh...Just think of the tax payer money that will be need to build, staff, and maintain this complex".
So won't building, staffing and maintaing this complex create jobs and grow the economy?
mypoint Nov 30, 11:45 a.m.
When this land was left to the state in Dix's will it mandated that it be used for the purpose of promoting positive mental health. She would roll over in her grave if she knew people were going to use it for commercial purposes. I would think that would be a legal issue to be addressed for the state to ignore what the land was set aside for.
jeffdewitt Nov 30, 11:39 a.m.
RaleighHunts, if you don't believe people don't use Umstead you must not go there very often. I go there a lot and it is a very well used park.
I'm as hard core a conservative as anyone here and agree with AFP (and Mr. Pope, who is a great American), almost all the time. However this time we part ways, I would LOVE to see the Dix property made a park. It would be a benefit to the city or Raleigh and it's visitors for generations to come.
geosol Nov 30, 11:18 a.m.
And that's the difference between right wing REPUBLICANS and Democrats. The Democrats want to make something nice for ALL of the people to enjoy and the REPUBLICANS want to use public land to make more money for their fat cat friends.
27228 Nov 30, 11:16 a.m.
Read the article. The people complaining are republicans.
RaleighHunts Nov 30, 11:05 a.m.
right on OG. All the people clamoring for another big park, espousing how important outdoor activity is from a health standpoint, and how much revenue a PARK would bring in need to realize how much park Raleigh already has that is NOT BEING USED. Umstead is an AWESOME park, HUGE, and right on our doorstep yet people dont use it... same w Falls Lake. Seems to me that this PRIME spot right between downtown and University areas is perfect for some intelligent, attractive commercial development that will bring more people and businesses (and activity and revenue (TAX DOLLARS) and vibrancy) to the downtown area is what is appropriate for this area. I dont want to hear calls for using this space as a park until Im satisfied that we as a city are even utilizing the huge parks that we CURRENTLY have.
cantstandgoloanymore Nov 30, 10:53 a.m.
Wow. Adding another park to the area should really make peoples home prices skyrocket. I'm sure that is why the "elite" are pushing for this and buying up all the homes around there. An addition to Pollen Park (since it really is just an addition to a park that resides across the street) ought to raise their property values by millions. It should completely offset the terrible traffic, bad roads, bars and college kids all around, and general run down look of the area.
pappybigtuna1 Nov 30, 10:53 a.m.
all efforts to make this a Park that will bare her name, should be stopped. She does not deserve to have anything named after her.
She did nothing for this state, I take that back, she had an interstate built with Federal Stimulas Money, the interstate does not goes anywhere, no one uses it.
I bet she "pardons" the 3 people taking the hit for her lies. We wasted 4 years of our tax dollars and lives under her
og Nov 30, 10:45 a.m.
We already have a "Central Park" in Raleigh. It is called Umstead. And if you want to look farther into the future as the metro area expands, you can call it "Falls Lake." 325 some-odd acres located in prime real estate will not begin to compete with the park possibilities of those two areas.
The Dix property needs to be turned into our new commercial downtown. The existing downtown area should be dedicated to state, county, and city government along with associated legal functions. On the other side of that property you have the academic environment of Centennial Campus. Place the commercial arena directly between the two. Build it out with towering structures and other commercial property. Maybe one day even place a major league baseball stadium on the property at the same time we move the then aging PNC Center to the downtown area where it properly belongs.
In 30 or 40 years, we then have a combined property probably worth many tens of billions of assessed tax value.
miseem Nov 30, 9:53 a.m.
Typical all or nothing, black or white attitude on almost every issue from the public and the politicians these days. With over 300 acres, is there not enough land for some commercial/state office development, perhaps some higher density owner occupied housing, and significant open space? This combination would be a boost for downtown. Having just a park won't do much, having just offices won't do much for downtown. Like most problems and opportunities, a multi focused solution generally works best for the largest number of people concerned. You may not get everything you want, but you walk away with a lot of things you are happy with.
TVs_Deceit Nov 30, 9:52 a.m.
Actually 27228.. it's the - Democratic "logic" - that wants the NC taxpayers to subsidize a 325 acre park and higher property values for a few well-connected people.
FYI - Gov Bev is a Democrat, not a Republican. And she's the one pushing to make it a park that realistically only close-by neighborhood residents would use.
You have to understand.. this has been a multi-year plan to clear out the "undesirable" mental health patients and create a private park for a select few elites.
That's why they all moved into Boylan Heights over the last few years and started to renovate the old homes.. they were banking on having the park to play in along with greatly increasing their property value.
czdrummer Nov 30, 9:42 a.m.
Simple economics: the Purdue plan is based on an early assessment of the land value and therefore needs further investigation into the benefit for Raleigh and the state. However, there is enough land on the campus to build new consolidated offices and give the rest to the city for a park. However the relator association is against this as they would rather see the state rent.
sctech Nov 30, 9:39 a.m.
27228, like we do for the Outer Banks roads?
Bob Bubbles Nov 30, 9:35 a.m.
I got the call from Private Developers for Prosperity and it made me sick. Selfish hypocrites. If it isn't bad enough to be against parks, it's just so obvious they want their rich pals to make a buck on it instead. Condemn private property for the good of the state and see how the developers howl!
27228 Nov 30, 9:29 a.m.
I love the GOP "logic". Why should a taxpayer in another county subsidize a park in Raleigh? He might as well ask why the taxpayers in populous, wealthy counties should subsidize roads, etc., in poorer, rural counties. Selfish, divisive conservative politics, yet again.
BigOski Nov 30, 9:16 a.m.
Im a conservative but if this gets handed over to NC State or a private developer, Im not going to be happy. How much land does NCSU need before enough is enough? And driving around wake county, one can find many office buildings that have lease signs out front. Make the darn thing a park and dont cut any trees down in doing so.
Published: 2008-01-11 14:37:00
Updated: 2010-06-21 13:53:03