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getrealpeople Nov 29, 4:58 p.m.
Also when the EIS and 3 routes for southern section are resolved and 540 gets to I-40 and Clayton bypass (what a cluster that will be) then the last leg to 64 bypass will be left. By then the northen section will need widening and they will toll it all. :) careful what you ask for.
getrealpeople Nov 29, 4:55 p.m.
Great comments but once they put the "proposed" line across your land you or any buyer can't build anything until they know how much land they will need. They don't know up or down. I know someone who has been dealing with this 540 issue since late 80's. Yes, over 20 years. It's build then design not design build. No smart buyer will buy it unless he is low balling you. Why should she sell it for lower when land nearby is selling for 5 times what they are offering???? Hire eminent domain attorney! Also your taxes will go to over $10,000 year on the land you can't sell or develop because proposed road. DOT will pay 10 times more for the land now than if they just bought it 10 years ago but that would make sense....
sweetums googoo Nov 29, 4:35 p.m.
@cuffusion and lewiskr45
I had to travel the toll road (for work) @ 5 pm on a Friday and I could have built a house on the section from 147 to Davis drive. NO ONE was on it. I hear this same thing all the time from people that live in this area. The tolls are not paying for anything... Period. Anything else said on this is "creative" accounting...
How in the world did this thing get passed as a toll road? I40 from Durham to Raleigh in both directions is not only woefully overcrowded, undersized but actually very, very dangerous to travel. I was hoping that the southern 540 loop would siphon off traffic for the southern end of Wake that now goes all the way to Wade ave, but if it is a toll road, NO ONE WILL USE IT! Who do we need to fire (or vote out...) to get this changed and how many more people need to DIE in I40 wrecks for the 540 project to move forward? Really, I am asking... Does anyone know?
etshoney Nov 29, 4:23 p.m.
Wait until the Government is in charge of Healthcare! It will make problems with the DOT look like a vacation. Government is SOOOO efficient!
NiceNSmooth Nov 29, 3:51 p.m.
What's left to build is the southern and eastern portions of the 540 loop – the Triangle Expressway Southeast Extension – which will also be toll roads.
so does that mean the westward, as Interstate 540 from N.C. Highway 264 in Knightdale to N.C. Highway 54 in Morrisville will never have to pay tolls?
lewiskr45 Nov 29, 3:45 p.m.
"Our family lives near the 540 toll road. We DON'T use it strictly because we can drive on other roads for FREE. If they want tolls, charge the millions of vehicles passing through the state on I-95 everyday. They'll get all the money they need for 540. But as it is now, our family and our neighbors REFUSE to use the 540 toll road."
Hate to break it to you, but NO roads are free. TAXES (gas tax and other local, state, and federal taxes) are used to pay for non-toll roads. The money collected from tolls are used to pay for those roads. You pay for every inch of road you use.
beachboater Nov 29, 3:32 p.m.
"So let me get this straight: 'potential use' is now a compensatory gov't entitlement?" A_Patriot
Reread the article. Until last year, the property was part of a "protected corridor" which restricts the development of the property. A developer would not pay much for a piece of land if he didn't know what he could do with it now would he?
You read about things like this in the paper occasionally. Someone buys a nice building lot for a premium price, but they can't afford to put a house on it at the time. They save their money, pay their taxes, and then start getting ready to build. Now the environmental rules have changed and the land is worthless. Worthless, only because new regulations call a dry lot a wetland or because someone finds fossilized fluted spotted canary eagle hawk oil dung on it. And the landowner suffers. I should say the taxpayer landowner suffers.
It should be dealt with.
ladyblue Nov 29, 1:45 p.m.
No one is denying your right to own your land (or sell it). patriot
then are u saying they are lying and owner can sell the land. accoarding to article she can't do anything with it as long as state has it in the "headlock"...
ladyblue Nov 29, 1:44 p.m.
The holdups have potentially cost Johnson millions of dollars over the past 10 years. During that same time period, she's had to pay approximately $228,000 in property taxes on the land – taxes, she says, she can no longer afford.
IMO if the state has grabbed "hold of it so to speak" taxes should not be paid by owner since owner has no cntrol over the land. but then the state isn't known
for playing fair.
cantstandgoloanymore Nov 29, 12:52 p.m.
cuffusion - doesn't fall under equal protection because it isn't a the only route from the area and they are limited to only using it.
A_Patriot Nov 29, 12:32 p.m.
"If the state is going to limit the potential use of a person's land for an extended period of time, that property owner should be compensated. To hold someone's land hostage for many years and use a different route is highway robbery (pun intended)."
So let me get this straight: 'potential use' is now a compensatory gov't entitlement?
Regardless of how the land came to be owned, this is nothing more than the owner HOPING to cash in on a bet (in the form of "oh please jack up the value by putting an exit on my lot).
Frack the owner. No one is denying your right to own your land (or sell it). You bought it; it's now only worth what someone will pay for it. But to complain that "I could get $$$ instead of $ if the gov't would point the 'dozers my way" is laughable, bordering on contemptible.
If only gold would double in price, I'd sell my stash! That I bought at $300/ounce doesn't seem to matter...
cantstandgoloanymore Nov 29, 12:09 p.m.
This is that same lady that has already been offered money from the DOT and she claimed it wasn't enough. $108k per acre for 11 acres. That happened last year. She was offered nearly the same amount per acre ($140k per acre)from someone before that but they backed out of the deal.
cuffusion Nov 29, 12:06 p.m.
Personally I feel that if the state protects a strip of land .. essentially depriving the owner of full rights to development and/or sale.. they should provide significant tax relief as a remedy.. this way the owner does not bear the burden of the states glacial pace alone.
I am still confused about the toll road though.. I cant understand why those who live and use the southern parts of 540 which is designated a toll road have not sued the state as they are being treated differently by the process as those who use the northern sections of the loop which are toll free.. I would submit that this violates the equal protection clause in the NC state constitution.. why would one group have to pay simply because of where they live and where the State happened to choose to construct last? Interestingly the State knew from the beginning that the southern parts of the county were in the greatest need of the roadway.. but decided to construct that area later in the process..
cantstandgoloanymore Nov 29, 12:02 p.m.
Boo Hoo. She still has 45 acres that they aren't considering that she could subdivide and sell. Sounds to me like they were holding on for a larger payout and couldn't really afford it.
offconstantly Nov 29, 11:55 a.m.
she was a lil melodramatic....she wins the oscar! lol
benhansen74 Nov 29, 11:51 a.m.
I certainly feel for the lady but why is WRAL revisiting this? Every 6 to 9 months this comes back as a feature story even though nothing has changed. Are we short of news stories? This is the second or third time this has come up.
beachlvr0804 Nov 29, 11:02 a.m.
Simple solution.....the state just needs to buy herland from her. To tie her hands and restrict what she (or anyone else for that matter) can do with what is rightfully hers is just not right. She's essentially paying taxes on property that isn't any good to her. Has the state made any concessions to her in the process of all this mess? Probably not!!!!!
Road-wearier Nov 29, 10:58 a.m.
"You have to honestly feel bad for that lady - and she may end up losing her land after all is said and done if she can't pay the tax bill."
These landowners need tax relief on the impacted properties if the gov't is going to leave them twisting in the wind. If the owner is not able to get any return while the decisions are being made, the gov't forfeits the taxes. Not only is this more fair to the land owners, it's the surest way to light a fire under the gov't agencies involved - Lord knows they want their pound of flesh.
hp277 Nov 29, 10:52 a.m.
"....Not that the two are related, but NCDOT has no alternative right now at the OBX." btneast
NCDOT has an alternative. It's called ferry service. It works for Okracoke.
netizen Nov 29, 10:27 a.m.
Why no mention of the legislative action last March? This from http://www.ncdot.gov/projects/southeastextension/
"The Southeast Extension project has been officially on hold following enactment of North Carolina Session Law 2011-7 (N.C. S.L. 2011-7) in March 2011. This law restricts the Turnpike Authority from considering alternatives for the Triangle Expressway Southeast Extension that are north of the protected "Orange" corridor."
In other words, there will be No Southeast Extension for the foreseeable future. The NC legislature shut it down. The DOT is required to consider alternatives at the federal level, and prohibited from doing so at the state level. Quagmire. Perfect environment for some mollusks to thrive. Unfortunately, not so good for the citizenry. Your government at its best!
Oh, and if the Southern portion is to be a toll road, the whole thing should be a toll road. My 2 cents. Consider the last few toll-free years a gift.
JDAmbrosio Nov 29, 10:25 a.m.
You have to honestly feel bad for that lady - and she may end up losing her land after all is said and done if she can't pay the tax bill. What a crime! How come more people are not upset about what's being done to those land owners in the potential path of the road?? We had a great real estate agent who advised us not to buy a home that backed up to a beautiful area of woods. Those woods are now a four lane road with a median in the middle. This woman (and others) had no choice. Sad. The "roads are socialism" comment is one of the dumbest things I've read in a long time.
TVs_Deceit Nov 29, 10:23 a.m.
Some of the people making the decisions probably have a connection to the land that CAN be sold,
..and it behooves their pocketbook to limit the land available for purchase for as long as possible.
cadams225 Nov 29, 10:23 a.m.
I have one thing to say about charging tolls on the western and southern 540 roads. IF YOU'RE GOING TO CHARGE TOLLS , THEN INCLUDE ALL OF 540. I don't use 540 and will not - I'll other roads. It's not fair to punish one side of Wake Co. and not all of it.
Road-wearier Nov 29, 10:18 a.m.
"Until then, the highway can only be repaired back to its original condition."
How about this - do the smart thing and surrender the island to the ocean. It would be cheaper to buy out all the property holders than it is to keep fighting a futile battle with Mother Nature...
Road-wearier Nov 29, 10:17 a.m.
"Way too many roads, loops, bypasses and expressways around the area. Time for folks to quit wasting all of our tax money on roads in one area becasue people are too lazy to find a job elsewhere. The Socialism Programs like roads and stuff are just another sign of how far down America has come in the last 4 years, right? And Commie Toll Roads? Time to go out and buy 5 more guns each!"
If this was meant to be sarcasm, it's excellent. If it's not, it is the most amazing thing I've read in years. Roads are socialist? Toll roads communist? And only in the past 4 years? Amazing. Simply amazing. You're looking for a place with essentially no government supported infrastructure or anything else. That place does exist - it's Sudan. Take your 5 newest guns and head on over - you'll need each and every one of those guns. And good luck finding employment - no company will be there. And your own company? Pay out to extortionists and get robbed/stolen from all the time.
btneast Nov 29, 10:09 a.m.
if it wasn't bent on throwing hundreds of millions of dollars into the ocean to rebuild and rebuild and rebuild and rebuild NC 12 on the Outer Banks.
....Not that the two are related, but NCDOT has no alternative right now at the OBX. The NPS will not allow any deviation in the current roadway (bridge, causeway, etc). The enviromentalists are engaged in a war of lawsuits with Dare County and DOT over replacing Bonner Bridge.....whatever method of replacement is finally decided will determine the future of NC 12. Until then, the highway can only be repaired back to its original condition.
baldchip Nov 29, 10:07 a.m.
Hey guys-the Clayton By Pass was slowed some 10-12 years because of a dumb snail darter. Some student probably found 4 or 5 of them in Middle or Swift Creek and that deal was done!!
Same with the 540 south and east. They found 4 darters in a 2 mile segment after the Lake Benson spillway. Let's be real blunt-are the tree huggers going to stop a highway over 4-yes 4 snail darters??? Answer-probably!! That answers alot of America's problems. The tail is waging the dog.
Oh-and I will support a toll road on the south side right after tolls are placed on the north side!! However, that's not gonna happen!!
The DOT needs to buy this woman's land or work a deal with Wake Co. It is unfair for her to have to hang onto the land, cannot do anything qwith it, then be billed for $200K+ in property taxes. There is something wrong with that picture!!
smegma Nov 29, 10:07 a.m.
people actually use that toll road? it's empty every time i drive by
beachboater Nov 29, 10:07 a.m.
If the state is going to limit the potential use of a person's land for an extended period of time, that property owner should be compensated. To hold someone's land hostage for many years and use a different route is highway robbery (pun intended).
If this land is ultimately used for the highway, fine, pay for it. If this land is held out which could prevent development and ultimately reduce the value of the property, the land owner TAXPAYER should be adequately compensated.
As the lady said, get off their duffs and make a decision.
redant Nov 29, 9:45 a.m.
Want some cheese with that whine?
JustAName Nov 29, 9:35 a.m.
"Environmental regulations require study of multiple alternatives." - RoadsGuy
Actually, this is where the problem is. The studies were done, the route selected, then someone found a shell fish and messed everything up. The route should have been approved, then announced and never changed.
RoadsGuy Nov 29, 9:15 a.m.
whatelseisnew- "THey have had a PROPOSED route for that road for decades now. Back when they outlined the route they should have bought ALL of the necessary property. The land would have been cheaper and landowners would not be impacted because it would already be known exactly where it was going..." - Environmental regulations require study of multiple alternatives. Freeway alternatives can be thousands of feet apart. I agree it takes a long time to plan a road and I wish they could buy up a lot more land early on, but that's usually not practical. As soon as landowners see NCDOT coming their land suddenly becomes a lot more valuable. NCDOT had narrowed down alternatives and had already purchased a lot of land in areas where they thought the road would eventually go, but political involvement at the state level put the brakes on the process. If not for that we'd probably have an approved route by now.
Jimm57 Nov 29, 9:11 a.m.
Our family lives near the 540 toll road. We DON'T use it strictly because we can drive on other roads for FREE. If they want tolls, charge the millions of vehicles passing through the state on I-95 everyday. They'll get all the money they need for 540. But as it is now, our family and our neighbors REFUSE to use the 540 toll road.
Banned4Life Nov 29, 9:03 a.m.
Way too many roads, loops, bypasses and expressways around the area. Time for folks to quit wasting all of our tax money on roads in one area becasue people are too lazy to find a job elsewhere. The Socialism Programs like roads and stuff are just another sign of how far down America has come in the last 4 years, right? And Commie Toll Roads? Time to go out and buy 5 more guns each!
burkely7 Nov 29, 9:02 a.m.
There's no argument here.
Owning, buying and selling property is a risk.
She is not guaranteed her asking price or a profit.
Sure, it's unfortunate, but development occurs because of demand, not just because someone wants to develop it.
short Nov 29, 8:34 a.m.
Anybody view the Triangle Exp through Morrisville recently - it's a ghost town. I suspect the same for the Western Wake portion when that opens. My main issue - the toll costs are about as confusing as one gets.......never mind the signs. My thoughts - just make the toll a set price no matter what portion is being driven...I'll bet they get more volume and subsequently more revenue.
NCPictures Nov 29, 8:31 a.m.
"Signs of change – from malls and businesses to homes – are all over the area surrounding the newest section of N.C. Highway 540 in Holly Springs."
"Over the past decade, she says, developers have been interested in the property but have been hesitant to buy because of uncertainty over the North Carolina Department of Transportation's plans to extend the toll road in southern Wake County to complete the Interstate 540/N.C. Highway 540 loop."
Well? Which one is it? I can fracking guarantee people are NOT moving businesses to an area with a TOLL ROAD! WOW What a crock!! No I will not be using the toll road, as it unfairly effects one side of town. Please anyone tell me why the north side of 540 is free yet here it is a toll road???
whatelseisnew Nov 29, 8:27 a.m.
THey have had a PROPOSED route for that road for decades now. Back when they outlined the route they should have bought ALL of the necessary property. The land would have been cheaper and landowners would not be impacted because it would already be known exactly where it was going. As it is, developments were built and then uprooted. Course then it would have cost them tax revenue and we can't have that happening.
RoadsGuy Nov 29, 8:22 a.m.
hp277- "NCDOT might be able to move forward with this critical link for the Triangle if it wasn't bent on throwing hundreds of millions of dollars into the ocean to rebuild and rebuild and rebuild and rebuild NC 12 on the Outer Banks." .. .. ..That has nothing to do with it. The state legislature pretty much halted the study process when they passed a law blocking study of the red route alternative thanks to the complaints of the locals. The state legislature thought they could circumvent the federal environmental regulations just to make the locals happy. If they had kept their hands off the red route would have most likely (and I say it would have) dropped out as a reasonable alternateive anyway and we'd be in a lot better shape when it comes to knowing the exact path of the road by now. This is what happens when state politics gets in the way of federal environmental regulations. If you have an issue with that contact your legislator.
sloan3 Nov 29, 8:20 a.m.
Where can I buy one of those sweet shirts that Pat is wearing? Don't ask why (I'm asking this question) or you won't be surprised at CHRISTmas.
rushbot Nov 28, 7:54 p.m.
hp277 - "NCDOT might be able to move forward with this critical link for the Triangle if it wasn't bent on throwing hundreds of millions of dollars into the ocean to rebuild and rebuild and rebuild and rebuild NC 12 on the Outer Banks." .. .. ..I concur.
mattcli Nov 28, 7:45 p.m.
So much for speeding up development by baiting and switching the bottom 3/4 of the promised Outer Loop into a toll road.
hp277 Nov 28, 7:43 p.m.
NCDOT might be able to move forward with this critical link for the Triangle if it wasn't bent on throwing hundreds of millions of dollars into the ocean to rebuild and rebuild and rebuild and rebuild NC 12 on the Outer Banks.
Published: 2008-01-11 14:37:00
Updated: 2010-06-21 13:53:03