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  • ElmoandDorothy Nov 23, 2012

    For more information please sign the petition in support of the Durham Urban Archery Program at:

    -- 0 hunting accidents related to bow hunting to innocent by standards for the past 40 years that the NC Wildlife Commission has kept records
    -- 17 deaths in NC related to deer-car collisions between 2009 and 2011, and 61,000+ deer-vehicular collisions
    -- 81 deer-car collisions within city limits have been reported from Durham Police Dept. this year since so far from Oct. to Nov.
    -- Average cost to repair car hit by deer=$3,000
    -- There exists a deer density in Durham City limits of 50-70 deer per square mile (normal is 20-30 dpsm)=overpopulation of deer within city limits
    --Overpopulation of deer=spread of Lyme disease through ticks (more deer=more ticks), increase deer-car collisions (=increase tax payer cost, personal costs, and injuries/fatalities, and loss of biodiversity of flora in State Parks and surrounding areas.

  • ElmoandDorothy Nov 21, 2012

    Nuff z Nuff: Thanks for your comments. I understand you were probably joking, but hunting would not be done from the tops of houses. The interview was a little misleading stating "hunting in woods coming right up to these houses." Hunting would be done on larger parcels in the city and a minimum required distance away from houses (200 yards for instance, as an example although the city could develop their own rules). Hunters should and I would think would be required to hunt elevated so an arrow would have an appropriate back stop (the ground) upon discharge of a arrow from a bow.


  • ElmoandDorothy Nov 21, 2012

    The snowmobile incident was likely with a firearm. A responsible hunter, which are 99% of hunters, would not mistake a human or a pet for a deer. Has it happened? Yes. Does it happen often? No. Do deer-car collisions happen often? Yes. Do deer-car collisions kill many people? Yes. 17 fatalities in NC from 2009 to 2011.

    I'd challenge anyone to find fact-based data to show hunting accidents in urban archery areas within city limits causing harm to non-hunters/innocent bystandards (99% of accidents, based on research, are from hunters not wearing or forgetting wear their treestand safety harness) at even a rate of 1% compared to the number of persons killed in deer-vehicular collisions. Those numbers are not there to support that hunting is a threat to the safety of non-hunters/innocent bystandards or pets. Atlanta, GA has had urban archery hunting for three years with 0 persons or pets mistaken for deer.

    Thanks for your time.

  • ElmoandDorothy Nov 21, 2012


    Thanks for your comments. I agree with you, dead deer on roads inside city limits of Durham does not equal overpopulation. However, trail camera surveys I have personally done show deer at 70 deer per square mile (more than triple what wildlife biologists consider "normal", anything over that is considered "overpopulation"). I completely agree to stick to facts based on research, and that research has been done already (Duke Forest in Durham had 80 deer per square mile prior to private bow hunting allowed 5 years ago which is still going on now).

    Here's a research based link: stating that diagrams point to a deer density of over 40 deer per square mile in Durham.

    Again, wholeheartedly agree this should be a fact-based decision, but the facts are that deer ARE overpopulated according to NC Wildlife biologists and we all know what results when they are overpopulated

    Thanks for your time.

  • independent_thinker Nov 21, 2012

    As a Durham resident, I welcome a thoughtful discussion of the idea. I've heard there are fewer hunters which contributes to an unsustainable deer population - if so, this is another way to attract a new generation.

    I avidly fish the three rivers that run through Durham and enjoy finding new ways that friends and families can enjoy outdoor sporting activities.

    Who knows, I may become one of the new bowhunters...

  • fishon Nov 21, 2012

    Good theory but it doesn't fit the facts. Deer hunters are killed every year. In MN there was a hunter dressed in orange, driving a snowmobile - a hunter thought that he was a deer and killed him.

    With an arrow?

  • fishon Nov 21, 2012

    beaulahjackson4 - you ever try to hit a deer running in a woods / field legally (8 eight above ground) from dusk to dawn and kill it? good luck, very few can do this and the risk to others isn't worth it. A rifle with a good site is a better deal for deer human.

    Most bowhunters will only shoot when they have a clear standing shot at the vitals. And discharging a weapon 8 feet off the ground is only for centerfire rifle, at least in Wake County. You can hunt with a bow, pistol, or shotgun off the ground.

  • denleala Nov 21, 2012

    Why is it that dead deer on the highway = overpopulation? If you take away natural habitat, and they get forced into a smaller area to live - it's over population? I have no problem with hunting or hunters, but do you really think deer decide to be livin' large in Durham? No, they don't have the room as they once did.

  • ElmoandDorothy Nov 21, 2012


    I understand where you're coming from however a recent article in the News and Observer: shows that over 80 calls were made to the Durham Police Dept. to respond to deer-car wrecks WITHIN the city limits. The article also points to the fact that DOT picks up these deer before morning commutes and then again after afternoon commutes. The article states when they do their morning deer pickup, there are already a dozen more deer in the same locations. I've done trail camera surveys within the city limits and on three occasions have come up with a population estimate in certain parts of the city at 70 deer per square mile.

  • what_in_the____ Nov 21, 2012

    Bow hunting is much safer than hunting with a gun. In order to kill a deer with an arrow, the distance between the hunter and the deer is much closer so there is no excuse for mistaking any other animal for a deer.

  • whatelseisnew Nov 21, 2012

    NOthing evil about hunting. It should have the purpose of providing meat. I don't hunt, but I do like venison.

  • pedsRN Nov 21, 2012

    I have seen deer several times crossing Woodcroft Parkway or running into wooded areas off Woodcroft Parkway. Just this weekend there was a dead buck at the corner of Woodcroft Parkway & Barbee Rd, apparently hit by a car. About 20 years ago I hit deer twice within 9 months & my parents hit 3 within the span of a month. All 5 of those incidents occurred in rural Person County, not within the city limits.

  • ElmoandDorothy Nov 21, 2012

    Hunters as a group are respectful and most people don't know that hunters are the world's greatest conversationalists. Through a 11% excise tax with the Pittman-Robertson Act and the purchase of hunting licenses and tags, most public land is purchased by hunters. This same land that is enjoyed by both hunters and non-hunters. Hunters are not a group out to kill animals, we enjoy the outdoors just as much or more than any other group. We enjoy watching foxes, hawks, birds, and of course deer. We donate to programs like Hunter's for the Hungry where venison is donated to food banks. I would setup such programs in Durham specifically for Urban Archery Hunters to donate the surplus of deer in Durham to food banks in Durham.

  • hp277 Nov 21, 2012

    I see nothing wrong with this. A deer ran into the side of my car a couple years ago in Durham and did $2,700 damage. I saw 3 dead deer by the road on the way to work Monday. We have an overpopulation of deer and no predators other than cars and SUVs.

  • ElmoandDorothy Nov 21, 2012


    If critics consider deer hunting in city limits with bow and arrow evil, then it is a necessary evil. The deer population is out of control in Durham and it's more respectful to the animals to use them for their intended purpose rather than watch them starve and cause more damage to their own environment. Currently they are eating themselves of house and home.

    Thanks for your time.

    Eric Steinbicker, DDS

  • ElmoandDorothy Nov 21, 2012


    The Program would require hunters hunt 200 yards from houses and on minimum acreage sizes like in Concord that requires 2 acres or more of land. Between 2009 and 2011, 17 FATALITIES occurred in NC due to deer-car collisions! 17 fatalities!

    And critics are still worried about bow hunting when the chances of being harmed or pets being harmed are slim to none. But, the chances of being hit by a deer are great and serious. Not to mention, loss in taxpayer money from so many officers reporting to collision sites, thousands of dollars spent by your or insurance companies to repair said car, loss of biodiversity in areas that are in Durham like the Eno Park from over destruction of flora (deer are running out of food, just as happened in Duke Forest prior to implementing a urban archery program there), and increased coyote population from increased fawn survival.

  • ElmoandDorothy Nov 21, 2012

    I am heading up a proposal to the Durham Town Council to consider Urban Archery Hunting in city limits in Durham (just as 34 other cities have already done in NC including Chapel Hill, Concord, Pittsboro and likely this year Wake Forest). The benefits of the Program are too numerous to mention here. Please visit our online petition located here and considering supporting it:

    Bottom line, deer-car collisions in NC are increasing at a rate of about 8% each year as opposed to cities that participate in urban archery like in the metropolis of Atlanta, GA, where rates are staying steady. Currently, in Durham, trail camera surveys show deer population at 50-70 deer per square mile. Normal is 20-30 dpsm.

    Critics say hunting is unsafe. Please show me where bow hunters have caused harm to multiple non-hunters in urban archery hunting areas due to arrow deflection. The Program would require hunters hunt 200 yards from houses

  • j5hunterwolf Nov 21, 2012

    clickhere - I am an avid bow hunter and strive to only take a confident clear shot. In my opinion a hunter should never take a shot at a running target regardless of weapon. That is when accidents happen and gives the sport of hunting a bad image. Vehicle collisions is only a small part of the reason for management. Urban deer populations grow to numbers that are not sustainable. Over-population leads to spread of disease and unhealthy animals that must venture into neighborhoods and forage on non-native ornamental plants in landscapes. If we are going to continue to sprawl and build sub-divisions in every available spot, then we need to find a way to co-exist with nature in a sustainable way.

  • clickhere Nov 20, 2012

    beaulahjackson4 - agreed, there are good hunter families, sorry for reacting, but I've got 190 acres I clean up after the poor hunters. You have a point.

  • beaulahjackson4 Nov 20, 2012

    clickhere" Maybe I feel differently due to my experience with bow hunting, and a family of hunters that all gun, bow, ball & musket shoot. We hunt deer, turkey, and elk. I know skilled hunters therefore my experience is obviously vastly different than yours. And yes I do know what it takes. Although in my experience you shoot precisely and while the animal is still and with a sharp broadhead. As I stated before…..dependent on the area.

  • TiminNCisBack Nov 20, 2012

    "Good theory but it doesn't fit the facts. Deer hunters are killed every year. In MN there was a hunter dressed in orange, driving a snowmobile - a hunter thought that he was a deer and killed him.

    Hilarious, another transplant! I agree just allow everyone to continue to wreck vehicles and cause bodily harm. I can send you pictures from Durham just in the past months where deer have actually come through the windshield and left the drivers have ended up in very bad shape. Remind us again how many hunters this year have killed others or hit wrong targets. PLEEEASEEE!!!

  • clickhere Nov 20, 2012

    beaulahjackson4 - you ever try to hit a deer running in a woods / field legally (8 eight above ground) from dusk to dawn and kill it? good luck, very few can do this and the risk to others isn't worth it. A rifle with a good site is a better deal for deer human.

  • beaulahjackson4 Nov 20, 2012

    I am shocked! I had no idea that hunters weren't allowed to bow hunt in Durham. Personally I think it's actually a lot safer than a gun obviously but I suppose it depends on the location. I believe it's a much more humane way to kill a deer than for it to get hit by a car. Deer populations seem to be up this year too, I've seen them in Raleigh to include near downtown. I cannot imagine a bow hunter mistaking a dog for a deer. Bow hunter s are and have to be very precise. They don't want to waste arrows. Most strings they pull are 70 lb pull or more. It’s not an easy task. If they shoot an animal they are generally going to eat it. Dependent on the area I don't see what the problem is.

  • clickhere Nov 20, 2012

    Sorry, too many of these hunters miss and hit other "targets". Or leave maimed deer that die along the roadside /in fields (which I wind up cleaning up since the State doesn't). I've been watching this for 35 yrs in eastern NC and hope they don't approve bow hunting in Durham.

  • ugottabkiddinme Nov 20, 2012

    Really?! a bowhunter is going to mistake a dog for a deer...if that hunter was that stupid, he wouldn't even know how to load the's not likely the deer would be more than 30 yards away. PLEASE! try to find a more logical reason for opposing this

  • theradiator25 Nov 20, 2012

    As long as a hunter has a license and the permission of the property owner, I don't really see the problem. It's not as if any law will go in to effect that will allow archers to wander the city in search of the animals in question.

  • tsquaring Nov 20, 2012

    I say let people keep running cars into deer. It Durham after all, who cares.

  • Screw WrAl Nov 20, 2012

    great idea, right from the tops of our houses.

  • DurhamDevil Nov 20, 2012

    Sorry, but the safety of the public is more important. I happen to live in a neighborhood that adjoins a wooded area and I have kids who love to play outside.

    The deer pose no problem to my family's safety but the hunters would.

  • seankelly15 Nov 20, 2012

    "But Steinbicker said it’s unlikely that a hunter would mistake a dog for a deer.

    “Look at the facts. Look at the statistics,” he said. “The chances of that happening are slim to none.”"

    Good theory but it doesn't fit the facts. Deer hunters are killed every year. In MN there was a hunter dressed in orange, driving a snowmobile - a hunter thought that he was a deer and killed him.

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