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jetset Aug 23, 6:27 p.m.
I am 100% for YOUR child or ANY child with disabilities to attend school beginning at age 3 and going to age 21. Not as much federal money will be spent here. BUT, when you start talking EVERY preschool child, THRN I have an ISSUE that our GVT mandates for ALL OF THEM go---- LONG TERM stats do NOT show the benefit and THAT is a fact.
jetset Aug 23, 6:21 p.m.
I am not complaining about educating our youth, for Heaven's sake. However, I know that the educational system in China and Japan is VERY STRUCTURED AND THEY GO FOR LONG HOURS AND EVEN SATURDAYS. You are comparing apples to oranges. Parents in China pay for lots of the educational perks IF their child does these things. And, isn't their political system so much different? Maybe, communist? If the child can't learn or has a disability, there is NO WAY in Chinal that they would pay one dime for the child to,attend school. THINK!!!!!!!
jetset Aug 23, 6:03 p.m.
In no way am I saying it did not help your child. I am talking llong term benefits to a child after grade school. Preschool gives children a boost so they will be ready for KINDERGARTEN. After that, not so much. Is the juice worth the squeeze. In other words, does our gvt have that amt of money to keep giving, giving, giving when some parents could HELP pay or SUPPORT these programs but don't do one thing except expect more?
jzdukefan Aug 23, 1:19 p.m.
“Someone I loved once gave me a box full of darkness. It took me years to understand that this too, was a gift.”
If you have never walked in the shoes as a parent of a child with a disability or a learning disorder then your opinion really doesnt even matter. You have no idea how hard it is or how expensive it is to take care of and provide for them. The journey is a long road with lots of bumps,turns, pot holes and that is sometimes never ending. You never know what to expect and your life is never anywhere close to normal. These are children that can not help what they were born with. I do agree that their parents can help. I am a STRONG advocate for my son and I have been since he was about 11 months old and I knew that there was something wrong with him. I feel very Strongly about educating our Youth as ealry as possible. Even without a Disability or learning Disorder. Look how smart the Chinese and Japanese are. They start early. Find something else to complain ab
jzdukefan Aug 23, 1:05 p.m.
I would have been happy to pay for my son to be in that classroom. In fact I did pay for alot of things that he did do in that classroom. And I do pay for my son to go to daycare now and I did pay for him to go to daycare before and after school then. Most of those children have a disability or a learning delay. How would you feel if your child was mentally challenged or mentally handicap and people were on here talking smack about them receiving an education a lil bit earlier to try and get them caught up to other children their age?
These kids will be the kids that hold your child back from learning in the classroom because they are behind and the teacher has to spend more time with them instead of the group as a whole.
jzdukefan Aug 23, 12:50 p.m.
You are more than welcome to come meet my son anytime you would like. He can proove it. There is also another child that started with him that can proove the benefits. In fact EVERY child that was in his class benefited from this program. I dont know if it was the teachers or maybe your lack of actualy going into a classroom and visualizing the before and after affects. Who does the govt pay when they rent this space? Do they pay the school? Its a public school funded program. If the county doesnt offer it they can be sued.
You should read up on Civil Rights. You can go to the office of civil rights and section 504 will tell you all about it.
jetset Aug 23, 12:00 p.m.
I am all for educating our children. However, there comes a point where we as a country must say "whoa" to every freebie . So much money can be pumped in but if the results that the children do not benefit ( greatly) with stats to back up ( and there are saying they do not)) then the program should be abandoned. It is a huge expense with very little to prove for it.
jetset Aug 23, 11:55 a.m.
At one time there was preschool (beginning at age 3yo) for special needs children only at the school(called the EC) class. THEN, the at risk children got their own preschool within the school. It is part of the gvt sponsored preschool. It is all at risk and there is no charge if the child is on Medicaid. The federal gvt is involved in this. I think the county school board must "rent" the use of the space to the gvt. There is lots of money going to this gvt sponsored preschool.And, parents are clammoring to get their children in.
**** added note: I think there are other locations in the county that the gvt "rents" for their more at gvt sponsored preschool.
jzdukefan Aug 23, 10:20 a.m.
You all keep saying this is free daycare but school does let out for the Summmer so OMG!!! What in the world do these parents do with their kids over the Summer? Its not free Daycare. If they want free daycare they can go down to their local County Social Services and apply. Thats where you get free daycare from.
With that being said I guess everyone who has a child in school is getting free daycare that WE ALL ARE PAYING TAXES FOR.
There is MAYBE, yes MAYBE one clasroom like this at each school and all the children in the classroom are not enrolled in the PRE-K program. Majority of them are ECE(Special Needs) children who have a real disability. Who are REALLY at risk.
AGAIN DO YOUR RESEARCH
jzdukefan Aug 23, 10:13 a.m.
jetset thats great.... I use to be a registered democrat... but they are all the same in my opinion. I believe in saving money and not giving handouts as well. The problem is to many people are recieveing free handouts that dont really need it and the govt is wasting money on things that arent really needed. I know that you are smart enough to know that.
And if your a democrat you should talk to your current president because he is the one pushing to give,give,give to the poor while taking away from the poeple who work their tales off like I... a single mother who recieves NOTHING. My son was in an ECE program because he has Autism. He was in a blended classrom. There were children in his classroom that were part of the more at four program which is this Pre-K funded prgoram. Those children helped my son tremendously with social skills. While my son is extremely inteligent far beyond most of those students he didnt speak.
jetset Aug 22, 5:06 p.m.
You can give all the money in the world to irresponsible people and want them to better themselves....they would blow every dime. Sounds like the last few years to me. LOL.
jetset Aug 22, 4:29 p.m.
Guess what jzdukefan: i AM A DEMOCRAT, and mark my word, , we are headed in a downward spiral similar to the Europen countires. AND, if you run your home finances like the current "spend,spend, spend" gvt, then you aren't as conservative as you think. There is NO way that as a nation we can continue this wasteful spending. Give me one reason why PRE K is so important? And, spare me that the child will learn so much and excel in school and grow up and want to go to college. Money after money has been pumped and pumped into programs that "benefit " the economically disadvantged and guess, what...they are still there wanting handouts. Yeah, they want you to give them the money that you work hard for. I say YOU can go and do just that if you choose. Don't make anyone responsible. Yep, this country is headed for a fiscal meltdown, but by golly come one come all and get your free meal ticket. The gravy train is headed off the cliff.
jzdukefan Aug 22, 3:00 p.m.
I do have a problem with paying taxes on reaserch for beavers and ridiculous stuff like that when we have people in our own country starving and homeless. Why do we have commercials on TV asking us to give money to countries with starving children and families when we have them here. What is wrong with the people who live here? The USA is no longer the best place in the world to live I am sorry to say. You cant even walk safely down the street with out looking over your shoulder wandering if your gonna get shot and YOU people on here are worried about a child getting a better education?
YOU ALL SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES.
I AM A VERY CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN if you want to bring up the political aspect of things and I have no problem AT ALL with putting money towards making our society better. Even if its just an attempt. It would be way better than what we have now.
jzdukefan Aug 22, 2:42 p.m.
More money should be spent on education and teachers should be paid WAY more than the salaries they currently recieve.
ALL of you on here babbling all your nonsense have failed to realize that weather your active in your childs educational life or not. THEIR TEACHER SPENDS WAY MORE TIME WITH THEM THAN YOU DO. ADD THE TIME UP. HUSH YOUR LITTLE MOUTHS AND BE THANKFUL THAT WE HAVE THE EDUCATION SYSTEM THAT WE DO AND THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT HERE PUSHING TO MAKE THIS A BETTER PLACE FOR OUR FUTURE GENERATION.
Yes! I am sure there are some that use and abuse the system and take handouts and really dont care about their kids. They are the ones that we see on here and on the news at night that are 15 $ 16 years old killing people becasue they have had no home trainging.
It all goes back to the bible. Respect your leaders. Even if they fail to do the things you want. God has a plan for everyone.
WHY CANT PEOPLE JUST APPRECIATE WHAT THEY HAVE?
storchheim Aug 22, 1:51 p.m.
"However, if parents don't step up, should we just abandon those kids?" babbleon
In order to abandon something you had to have stewardship of it in the first place. These are not my kids, I don't care which way you spin it or what tired cliches about "our" future you trot out.
The one thing we haven't tried is taking all welfare money away from these women who keep having babies who are abandoned before they're even born.
JohnnyMcRonny Aug 22, 1:40 p.m.
"if those of us working and paying taxes to support these programs maybe we should VOTE on the ones we want to put in place" - US Born
Not so. We don't live in a democracy. We live in a republic and the way it works is that our elected representatives vote on issues, not us. Personally, I don't have children but pay taxes which means I am helping pay for the education of other people's children. If you have children then that means you. The obvious difference between your view and mine is that I am more than happy to have my tax dollars assigned to help children that are at risk of not receiving the same standard of education as most. Investing in children's education is an investment in our society's future.
MatureOne Aug 22, 11:02 a.m.
@US Born - I applaud your accomplishments but at the same time you can understand the advantages that this can provide for children. Not everyone will succeed because of it but it does help enough that it is actually cost effective to provide this service. It's not for the users and abusers but for the children in hopes that they don't become the users and abusers. I don't want to foot the bill for lazy people either but I know that not all people on welfare programs are lazy. I think the problem is that this is being viewed in the same vain as that and that it somehow allows them to cheat the system. I looked into the program because I thought it would be beneficial to have my child in a school setting actually learning what a school format will be like. Where I live my child would have been in a classroom at school not in a daycare. That is how I viewed it and why I believe that it helpful to those that can't afford reputable childcare.
ljohnson247 Aug 22, 10:37 a.m.
Have but one thing to say - education starts in the home and these early programs should not be used for daycare.
US Born Aug 22, 10:37 a.m.
I was not born with a silver spoon in my month, but I got an education and made my life better. But you can't force the users and abusers to get an education and better themselves. So point being.......some of us commenting on this have been in their shoes!
MatureOne Aug 22, 10:17 a.m.
@Just a name - I think there are plenty of stones being cast on here other than the pebbles I tossed out. I don't have any guilt for anything because I work hard for my money and I came from a low income background. I know the people that everyone is making generalizations about and I know their/my struggle. There are abusers of these programs and there are people that use them properly. I have seen people that go to work every day at low income jobs because that is all that is available in their area. Try having to use a subpar home daycare or somebody just watching you child because you can't afford a good daycare. You almost can't work to use these programs to begin with and that's with one child. Ask how many of the experts on here grew up in low income areas versus making assumptions and broad generalizations.
loveapex Aug 22, 10:11 a.m.
At-Risk...is a term thrown around by schools, doctors, researchers, etc to lump groups of people together. It really has no true definition. But, here is an idea for you. Based on the info below....ummmm....everyone.
Children have been defined as “at risk” with a variety of different indicators, including having limited reading
proficiency, having experienced abuse or trauma, having a disability or illness, or having exhibited behavior
Measures of family risk include poverty, a low level of parental education, a large number of children, not owning
a home, single parenthood,5 welfare dependence,6 family dysfunction, abuse,7 parental mental illness, parental
substance use, and family discord or illness.8
Measures of community risk might include rates of poverty, crime, unemployment, or teen parenthood in the community
US Born Aug 22, 10:08 a.m.
I wish the people on here would do research or go into a classroom like this and observe before passing judgement.....jzdukefan
Maybe you should read ALL the comments before you post your comment.......some on here have actually worked with these programs and families.
And how about this....if those of us working and paying taxes to support these programs maybe we should VOTE on the ones we want to put in place. How about we not have the Pre-K free babysitting and use that $$ towards these parents getting the needed skills to work and take care of their own families. There really needs to be a CUT-OFF period on government/tax payor support to these parents. Make them earn the $$ they are given. They need free day care...they can take turns working in goverment daycare centers...how about that?? Time they earned their upkeep. We are giving them the $$ anyway, not like it's going to cost any extra to pay them for work they do in the community.
MatureOne Aug 22, 10:04 a.m.
@ Nancy I don't doubt that the whole program could be cut in the future because education is usually the first to get axed. The ruling made it so people didn't have to pay whether poor or otherwise. Military people don't make a lot of money so that is a definite benefit to them and if you are absorbing the enourmous cost of special needs children then this is a definite help. It does help out the poor but it also helps those that are working and trying to contribute contrary to the generalizations being made on here.
jetset Aug 22, 9:29 a.m.
@JZDUKE FAN--i have no problem with any child going to preschool. But, the parents should NOT expect to have our gvt foot the bill. I truly believe that pre school is a perk. Children who do not attend preschool, who have had the necessary guidance at home, catch up quickly IF they are even behind. Sometimes, these children who do NOT attend actually know more than the ones who have attended. In your situation, I do see where it would be very helpful to have your child attend preschool. Your child has special needs. However, I do think there should be some fee attached to preschool. Everything is not free in life, as some people may think. I am being realistic..not emotional. Now, bleeding hearts.....go for it!
jetset Aug 22, 9:15 a.m.
Orphanages are for children whose parents can't seem to do what is necessary for their own child. There are a number of reasons why a child would go to an orphanage. i GUARANTEE you these children would be taught manners, respect, responsibility, they would get a good education and they would learn how to imteract appropriately. These children would be so much better off than staying in the home where there is contsant turmoil, being subjected to horrible influences,etc. if you don't think you can handle the responsibilities of raising your child, think twice! If you can't take care of yourself, how in the world can you take care of a baby with no support. And, don't think that a family member will always be around to do this for you. Grow up and become responsible first and foremost.
lessismore Aug 22, 9:10 a.m.
babbleon....without parents involvement, all the government won't help them.... Parents are more important than government will ever be. Problem is, government doesn't see it that way. They just keep pumping money they don't have into the deep well of no return.
jzdukefan Aug 22, 9:03 a.m.
Classrooms with children enrolled in the more at four program do get a certain amount of money each month per child. That money pays for itmes for the classroom and also for the teachers that are int here. If it is a blended classroom as my son was in.....ECE/More at four 2 teachers were hired with the county and one was paid with some of that money.
ALso these children are not placed in these classrooms based ont heir families financial status. It is based ont he childs needs. I am so thankful that there are programs like this blended classroom. It helped my son....who has Autism... out tremendously. Where he was lacking those children were not. Where they were lacking my son was not. It was a happy medium and they worked well with one another and both types of children were able to reach the goals that were set for their individual needs.
I wish the people on here would do research or go into a classroom like this and observe before passing judgement.
Working4aLiving Aug 22, 8:55 a.m.
I never claimed parents don't make a difference. However, if parents don't step up, should we just abandon those kids?....babbleon
Abandon, no...but we already feed, clothe and house most of these families. Why should we provide FREE day care for these moms?? Most of us that are supporting these families are also working to support our own families! And we have to pay for day care!
Working4aLiving Aug 22, 8:41 a.m.
jetset....THANK YOU for your comment. It is time people opened their eyes and see that the system isn't working to better MOST of these families. I have seen some myself, watching the children grow up, having their own children and they live the same way they were raised.....on the system. These children do need an education, however, give the tax payors a break with this free babysitting PRE-K as they like to call it.
lessismore Aug 22, 8:25 a.m.
What is an "at risk child"?
jetset Aug 22, 8:12 a.m.
I could not respond last night but time was not on my side. OK...you wanted facts--- I am an older social worker now who has been with public health my entire career. As stated earlier, I was one of the child service coordinators back when it began. The baby that I initially saw is now grown. Back then the mother and child were living in public housing and now, both still living in public housing. Now, the baby I saw back then has two toddlers now and all are living on Medicaid and this mother isn't married. And, to top it off, the baby I saw long ago through Child Service Coordination, and who is now grown, never completed high school. So, don't tell me I don't know what iI am talking about. I promise that if you research this, you will find the same. gobs of money were pumped into this family over these years, but nothing has changed. Just more heads on public assistance. Do you see the picture more clearly now?
babbleon Aug 21, 7:59 p.m.
you have no facts, no figures, no research - just your nasty opinion."
It is more than opinion it is fact that you simply want to ignore. whatelseisnew
One person's observations can not be applied to all in the program. The plural of anecdote is NOT data.
babbleon Aug 21, 7:57 p.m.
"includes features such as heavy parental involvement and education, meals, health services and home visiting, Reynolds says. Children begin preschool at age 3 and continue through third grade, about age 9." Note heavy parental involvement. Nancy
I never claimed parents don't make a difference. However, if parents don't step up, should we just abandon those kids?
Nancy Aug 21, 7:56 p.m.
"Oh please! the amount you pay for this PreK wouldn't keep a kid in diapers!" crabbit
Over $8K buys a whole lot of diapers there crabbit.
babbleon Aug 21, 7:55 p.m.
There is ample proof that these programs do not not any ongoing benefit to anyone. whatelseisnew
Actually, that is factually incorrect. There are multiple studies saying early childhood education helps. The main problem with the ones that say it doesn't help is that the extra support stops at kindergarten. Continuing it another three years, with teacher aides, etc, locks the benefits in through high school.
$1 in saves $4 - $11 in future costs. I'll take it.
whatelseisnew Aug 21, 7:36 p.m.
"Claiming that you are an eyewitness has nothing to do with the GROSS GENERALIZATIONS that you made. You have no clue about the effectiveness of the program - you have no facts, no figures, no research - just your nasty opinion."
It is more than opinion it is fact that you simply want to ignore. There is ample proof that these programs do not not any ongoing benefit to anyone. Point in fact the money wasted on this stuff could be used to help get us out of debt. The State budget is still far far too large and needs to be cut to 15 billion.
whatelseisnew Aug 21, 7:34 p.m.
"This decision was based on the NC Constitution."
No this decision is not based on the NC Constitution. It is a mandate and is is an UNFUNDED mandate unless of course these Judges are going to pay for it our of their pockets. The State should simply drop these programs in total. It is time to get rid of all the discriminatory Government programs that have come into existence. Let us start with this one and go on down the list of handout programs and eliminate all of those.
seankelly15 Aug 21, 7:29 p.m.
jetset - "No difference....the parents just had more children and got deeper and deeper in living for the moment. They have no goals for life and I really don't think they care! Just give me the help and leave me alone to do my thing is their mentality! I know.....I have been as eyewitness!"
Claiming that you are an eyewitness has nothing to do with the GROSS GENERALIZATIONS that you made. You have no clue about the effectiveness of the program - you have no facts, no figures, no research - just your nasty opinion.
Crabbit Cratur Aug 21, 7:28 p.m.
"Not only do I pay for your kid's day care, now I can pay for his pre-school too."
And I pay for yours and those of other folks, what of it? Whats so special about preK that you think we shouldn't pay for it?
"How many middle class families cannot afford a pre-school for their child?"
A lot less than poor families......
"Those of us who could not afford to have more children didn't but we have to pay for others lack of responsibility."
Oh please! the amount you pay for this PreK wouldn't keep a kid in diapers! You had no more kids because either your and/or you spouse decided not to have any more.
Nancy Aug 21, 7:25 p.m.
jetset, I don't doubt what you witnessed, not for a minute unfortunately.
jetset Aug 21, 7:07 p.m.
Nancy, I was a member of the "child coordination program" team who went out to the homes for at risk children. Medicaid funded this program way back then! We would make home visits, set up appointments for their child at the Doctor, set up transportation if needed, give them free milk, free car seats, set the appointments for immuniztions, etc and anything else they may need. We made it easier for them. Fortuntely, I was able to see these children once they got in the school system since I was still working with the local health department, just in a different program. They did not excel in school and doing all these things ( doing the work for the parent) was really like pouring water on a duck's back. No difference....the parents just had more children and got deeper and deeper in living for the moment. They have no goals for life and I really don't think they care! Just give me the help and leave me alone to do my thing is their mentality! I know.....I have been as eyewitness!
princessnise Aug 21, 6:33 p.m.
Not only do I pay for your kid's day care, now I can pay for his pre-school too. How many middle class families cannot afford a pre-school for their child? Those of us who could not afford to have more children didn't but we have to pay for others lack of responsibility.
Nancy Aug 21, 6:23 p.m.
babble - from your link on the grand success:
"The program, which has involved more than 100,000 low-income families since 1967, includes features such as heavy parental involvement and education, meals, health services and home visiting, Reynolds says. Children begin preschool at age 3 and continue through third grade, about age 9."
Note - heavy parental involvement.
"Fuller notes that parents were able to choose to join the program. So it's possible that children did well at least partly because their parents were committed to their education, not just because of the program."
Again, heavy parental involvement.
Parents CHOOSING - imagine that!
"He notes that a recent study of Head Start, a federally funded preschool program for at-risk kids, found that most of the program's benefits appear to disappear by the time kids are in first grade."
Free program, like our pre-k.
seankelly15 Aug 21, 6:20 p.m.
aetius476 - "There is a very definite mandate. The court has established that the state MUST provide, at taxpayer expense, a new entitlement program (pre-K education). One that did not exist in the past."
Here is the first line in the story - you must have missed it. "The North Carolina Court of Appeals ruled unanimously Tuesday to uphold a lower court decision that says the state cannot deny at-risk children admission to public pre-kindergarten programs."
This decision was based on the NC Constitution. It is not a mandate. GW Bush in creating "No Child Left Behind" created a mandate (an unfunded one at that). What you want to pick and chose which parts of the constitution to follow. Fine but stop using the term mandate when it simply doesn't fit.
jetset Aug 21, 6:05 p.m.
Nancy, I do understand what you are saying. The one thing that concerns me--being poor does not mean the parents can't help their children succeed. My experience is you can throw all the money you want into some programs but unless the parents do their part at home it is short lived. I also know that parents and the child's home enviroment and exposure to (things I might think are harmful morally) play a big role in how they turns out as and adult. We can't be at the homes and monitor what is being taught and the schools are not set up to teach everything. The role of the caregiver is crucial. Of, yeah....and don't get me started on the other wasted federally funded program called "Parenting classes." What a joke!
storchheim Aug 21, 6:03 p.m.
"We now have the courts deciding state budget matters." - Nancy
And we're all so sliced and diced against each other right now that most have forgotten this. It's outrageous! Have we voters completely lost control? We have GOT to shrink govt.
JustAName Aug 21, 6:01 p.m.
"Apparently now helping your fellow man is a sin or maybe it because they don't live where you live or speak your language or maybe look like you look." - MatureOne
Before you start to cast the first stone, know that taxes are not charity. Taking money out of someone else's pocket to appease your guilt isn't being a good person.
babbleon Aug 21, 6:00 p.m.
Just another welfare/ babysitting program. NE Raleigh
I wish so many of our welfare programs had such good returns.
"I'm willing to pay my taxes and have those taxes support higher graduation rates, better education, lower teen pregnancy, lower welfare and less jail time."
Please provide a link to a study that says Pre-K reduces all those numbers. Nancy
You didn't look very far back in the comments, but hey, you know me, ask for documentation and I will provide:
Mobile Geek Aug 21, 5:58 p.m.
@Nancy, You are absolutely right. I myself have many family members that are part of that generational welfare problem. For whatever reason, I decided I didn't want that type of life and got out of poverty with hard work and education. But so many of my family just sit around dreaming of winning the lottery or waiting for milk and honey to fall from the government dinner table. Pretty sad, coz it's all they know now.
babbleon Aug 21, 5:56 p.m.
"Again! why do you wish to punish kids for the sins of their parents???? All that does is continue the cycle." crabbit
Yeah, and you want to continue the cycle of "expecting" freebies?
Nope, I want to give them the tools to get better jobs so they can afford to pay for things.
Published: 2008-01-11 14:37:00
Updated: 2010-06-21 13:53:03