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ed1g1tal Jul 6, 8:51 a.m.
Great. Now add that to the fact the "peace officers" get overtime when testifying in court against you for the victimless crimes quotas they are being graded on in their performance system and we will have taken a few important steps to that police state that New York and Jersey is now... This is just a thinly veiled attempt to collect more taxes from your hard earned paychecks in the form of fine and court costs. What makes it even sweeter is they use the funds they steal from you while under threat of violence or incarceration to buy new toys like non-lethal weaponry and Bearcat APCs to do an even better more efficient job at spreading fear to the masses. Have you ever wondered why there is such a feeling of dread and fear when you see that cop car in your rearview mirror? Why? They are, after all, "peace officers", right?
gibbymon Jul 5, 6:22 p.m.
It seems to be time to get out of Raleigh. Corruption seems to be the only thing trickling down from the capital building. To bad the housing market is in the toilet. I would move back to Asheville, Where the gevernment has forgot is still in North Carolina. COUNT YOUR BLESSINGS ASHEVILLE. You are better off without this Government.
piene2 Jul 5, 6:21 p.m.
"What does PPM stand for?
People that are too lazy to type.
sef1528 Jul 5, 4:31 p.m.
I hope now you get stopped for something petty and/or arrested just to get the numbers up!! Ha, what comes around goes around. You have no idea how bad this guy is unless you are on the inside. I would like to see you work 12+ shifts, have YOUR life on the line, work hard, and still be called below ave. I think your opinion would change in a heartbeat! Go apply to become an RPD officer, but you won't you don't have the guts to do what they do on a daily basis and get paid in pennies and with basically no REAL benefits!
The Guy Jul 5, 3:18 p.m.
I have tried to add some more insight without naming names or violating posting guidelines, but my last two did not make it.
working for deadbeats Jul 5, 2:55 p.m.
I guess we citizens have to remember that officers are just the foot soldiers of a department and have to simply follow orders. If a supervisor says that Mrs Jones wants speeders ticketed on her road, then the officer better come in with results.
working for deadbeats Jul 5, 2:52 p.m.
I admire the officers who are speaking out. Thanks for saying what's not in the articles.
com_mon_sents Jul 5, 2:35 p.m.
Wow I never realized how much a police officer is like a teacher. You guys are getting the shaft like teachers do. Youare the ones out doing all the work and having to jump through hoops that are just plain insane. YET, don't dare speak up or question a new program/evaluation that is being implemented. I have read the comments from the police officers...and I'll have to say it's pretty sad to see that the dept. and cheif could care less about their concerns. Just like in education...the NUMBERS is all that matters. Quality is thrown right out the windows. YOu have my sympathy RPD officers...wow...it's very sad!
firecaptain2000 Jul 5, 1:52 p.m.
@ The Guy and RPD07
Amen! Keep the "insider" comments flowing.
The Guy Jul 5, 1:44 p.m.
Don't know why mine was censored either. So I will try again. Not all sworn-Raleigh Police Officers are requred to do these daily PPMs. So you have sworn Officers from the same department that are evaluated differently because some are evaluated based off of PPM numbers and some are evaluated based on their actual work and performamce.
Jul 5, 1:43 p.m.
hmmmmm....just the money Bev spent on her trip to China would have fed a small country for a day!!!!!
hmmmmm Jul 5, 1:39 p.m.
They just need more tax revenue for the department in these difficult economic times due to budget cuts. So basing performance reviews on how many tickets are written will create a cash cow for them because our police officers don't get paid nearly enough, and will do what they must to get a raise. C'mon Bev, how many "business lunches" could you and the rest of the government give up in favor of police raises. I bet it would add up to a lot of extra money over a years time....
RPD07 Jul 5, 1:32 p.m.
You are right. Promotions are right around the corner so those officers are worried that filing a greivance will hurt them. And I don't blame them based on Harry's track record. Then add on to that that other officers are just flat out scared of him no matter how many of us back the greivance.
Jul 5, 1:28 p.m.
Just a lot more work for a lot less pay...no raises in three years...just saying!
The Guy Jul 5, 1:27 p.m.
There are hundreds more that would have filed with the Union grievance, but we have are in the middle of a promotion process and if your name is on that list, you are black-balled from a promotion. The Chief, according to policy, has the final say on all promotions so it is not like there are a group of high ranking members that select promtions. They all have input, but he is judge and jury. We have seen what happens to high-ranking officers who have questioned him before. They get moved directly to midnight shift watch commander.
Pac-Man Jul 5, 1:15 p.m.
I think what's being missed here is that this evaluation system is "self entered" and is not only for line officer (uniform patrol). Even detetives, desk officers, adminstrative officers and civilians working in the department are required to enter these PPM's daily.
fishbowl Jul 5, 1:06 p.m.
I am unsure why my statement is being censored. But I will try again. The truth is that many more officers would have stood with the Union grievance. However, fear that the Chief has a way of getting rid of officers that speak out stopped many.
HarleyMan66 Jul 5, 1:06 p.m.
I wonder if the Chief has the guts to sit down with a citizen, say myself, hand me the the performance review paperwork and let me read it, without him explaining it?? Then let me ask questions, and give me direct answers, don't give me the run-around, and don't answer my question with a question. Are you up for that Chief?
RPD07 Jul 5, 12:55 p.m.
The complainers are also the officers. We are out there doing the best we can given the manpower, the call volume and the equipment we have. The issue with this system is that it subjects law abiding citizens to police encounters that normally wouldn't happen just to meet our numbers. It also punishes the officers that take more time actively seeking out the more heinous violations so instead those will cease to happen. Ultimately, it makes for lower QUALITY police service and instead focuses on QUANTITY.
carlostheass Jul 5, 12:45 p.m.
I commonly read comments on here about how fast everyone goes and how dangerously they drive and how the cops just won't do anything about it. The police chief implements measures that are common to larger cities across the southeast (at least) and now he's a bad guy. C'mon, complainers, you can't have it both ways. Is this really a problem and you want there to be some motivation for police to fix it or is there not really a problem? Which is it?
RPD07 Jul 5, 12:12 p.m.
Harry wants a "National Model" so that he can sell the idea and make money off of the destruction he did here in Raleigh upon his retirement. He'll need some sort of income once he gets a vote of no confidence and has to pay out for the lawsuit he's facing along with the city.
RPD07 Jul 5, 12:08 p.m.
There is a "set number" that needs to be met, it's just always shifting because it's taking the average of what other officers do. Except if all officers do zero '0' then they default to below average even though that is the average. So while no number is put out from the beginning, it is greater than 1. If you fail to meet the minimum, then at that point there will be a set number you must meet. This is a quota system.
The Guy Jul 5, 12:08 p.m.
In his statement, "A National Model"...ummm, who would that benefit?
kermit60 Jul 5, 12:02 p.m.
It may not be a "true quota sytem" because there is no number given that an officer has to do to meet standard. However if there evaluations are done based of the numbers that they do then the effect is the same. It forces officers to do the quick and easy stops or arrest in order to increase there numbers.
The Guy Jul 5, 11:58 a.m.
The Teamsters tried to meet with Dolan about this system and were told to take a long walk off of a short pier. And I can attest to the PPM developers being questioned during meetings and them babling on with no answers once the flaws were pointed out by Officers and civilian employees. This thing is like NASCAR, the Chief and PPM staff just change the rules as they go along. The meetings were a riot listening to a Major and Lt trip over there words when questioned about the system.
Triumph Jul 5, 11:55 a.m.
Between your police enforcement rules and annual school district reassignments, who do you Raleigh people chose to live there? Oh, I forgot, you have downtown fireworks to make you forget Wake County's problems.
RPD07 Jul 5, 11:50 a.m.
Finally, the whole statement that officers never spoke up about this system earlier is false. Not only did we complain to each other and to supervisors, we made complaints directly to the chief and to the committee that was tasked in designing and implementing this system.
In such meetings, officers raised questions and issues about the system and we were ultimately told to stop asking questions. There was no chance this was going to get fixed. We've also been piloting (using this unofficially) for 2 years and have complained the entire time about it's faults. To say we never spoke up is brave of Harry because we have.
Lastly, the officers that did speak up were brave but frankly, we were having to fight against superior officers (Lieutenants, Captains, Majors and the Chief) so you can only fight so much before a target is put on your back and you are retaliated against.
tgentry1005 Jul 5, 11:48 a.m.
A cop that has to worry about writing more tickets will not be doing his job to protect the citizens. More tickets is just more work for the courts and less money for the public. Does money for the police department have anything to do with this???
RPD07 Jul 5, 11:33 a.m.
The PPM, or Priority Performance Measures, area a set of "categories" of different type of activities we must do. If we don't we're subject to discipline up to and including termination. Therefor, if certain numbers aren't met, we fail.
This system promotes mediocrity and sheer quantity over quality work. For example:
The officer that stops 5 cars and gets drugs, guns, warrants, DWI's and uninsured motorists is a WORSE officer than the one that stops 20 grannies for going 5MPH over the limit.
The officer that gets out of his car to check on 5 businesses overnight checking doors is WORSE than the one that cruises through 20 apartment complexes.
The officer that hunts down 5 wanted subjects and arresting them is WORSE than the one that attempts 20 bad warrants to fill the box.
The officer that makes 5 quality arrests for criminal violations is WORSE than the officer that makes 20 borderline arrests for petty violations that they never made arrests for in the past.
firecaptain2000 Jul 5, 11:20 a.m.
@ Road-wearier AMEN!!!
working for deadbeats Jul 5, 11:12 a.m.
What does PPM stand for?
working for deadbeats Jul 5, 11:11 a.m.
Thanks for speaking the truth, The Guy. I knew that's what would happen with a policy like this.
Spock Jul 5, 11:06 a.m.
Interesting... Looking at this from another perspective -- if everybody followed the law then there would be no use for any LEO's.
The Guy Jul 5, 11:04 a.m.
I can tell you what this system has made me do. It has made me pull over and give tickets for things I would have never given a ticket before this system. We have been told by supervisors (who disagree with the system too), just make the numbers look good. This system has actually made officers worse. Just looking for numbers to fill into the appropriate slot and check it off for that day/shift. No longer really look and try to decrease crime, only look good on the PPMs.
Bartmeister Jul 5, 10:58 a.m.
Maybe the Chief should be evaluated on how many grievances and complaints have been lodged against him and associated with in this and previous jobs.
immaannoid Jul 5, 10:55 a.m.
"Wow. You're letting your pathological hatred of unions blind you from the real issue.
Or do you live in the woods and don't get out much?" - road-wearier
I have lived in large cities and have had to join professional unions to get a job. UAW, to be exact.
Unions can only objectively measure seniority, and therefore, those that keep their jobs in an union, are those who have been there the longest, not the ones that are competent. It is a system that rewards the incompetent.
Public sector unions are the worst: what is more useless than unionized government employee? Nothing. Seriously, nothing.
RomneyRyan2012 Jul 5, 10:55 a.m.
Gotta make up budget shortfall somewhere, and that is usually on the back of the taxpayer.
Itchy Willy Jul 5, 10:54 a.m.
Hey cops, if you want to get your quota, hang out on West Morgan St from Charlie Good nights to Glenwood, the speed limit drops to 25 but the usual speed of most vehicles is generally 35-40.
sctech Jul 5, 10:51 a.m.
This so called chief is not very smart. Some officers have to work in a downtown high drug area. These officers are obviously going to be taking calls all day while another officer on Glenwood Ave can write tickets all day.
Triumph Jul 5, 10:50 a.m.
I have always felt that compared to other Triangle area cities, Raleigh is policed with a gestapo style mentality that includes way too much use of red light cameras, motorcycle cop speed traps, parking meter Nazi enforcers, and more radar than a micro wave oven factory.
Road-wearier Jul 5, 10:40 a.m.
"Those who can, do. Those who can't, join a union."
Wow. You're letting your pathological hatred of unions blind you from the real issue.
Or do you live in the woods and don't get out much?
Road-wearier Jul 5, 10:39 a.m.
Lipstick on a pig - it's still a quota system. If a person starts to be measured by how many times he does X, he will now do more of X than he did in the past.
It's a quota for tickets. Prepared for 36 mph in a 35 mph zone tickets by the bucketload.
working for deadbeats Jul 5, 10:30 a.m.
Explain the difference between an officer writing tickets/ stopping cars based on a specific quota and an officer writing tickets/stopping cars to beat his coworkers in order to get the pay raise? There is a DWI arrest categorie. Hmmm, I wonder how many sketchy arrests will be made just for the DWI arrest. It doesn't say DWI convictions.
Disabled Vet Jul 5, 10:26 a.m.
Look out citizens of Raleigh. You will now be ticketed for every known ( and a few unknown) violation possible!
ncdedhed Jul 5, 10:08 a.m.
So-this now becomes a competition as the benchmark is measured by comparing each officer against their peers? The possibilities of this becoming rife with corruption is apparent. Wouldn't a more reasonable method to actually determine if the officers are DOING THEIR JOBS?????
immaannoid Jul 5, 10:05 a.m.
Anytime the teamster's union gets upset, it's great. Their only concern is to fill the union treasury and to conspire with organized crime.
It's ironic that law enforcement is associated with the most corrupt union in the US.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, join a union.
hossdaddy40 Jul 5, 10:00 a.m.
where does it say that the police officers are required to write more tickets. the only thing i saw "counting the number of activities they perform on duty." i am sure this could be a hundred of different things that an officer could do to get numbers. business contacts and citizen contacts by getting out of your car and walking around. towing abandoned vehicles, directed patrols etc., etc. maybe doing different prostitution and drug operations. it seems the old performance system rewarded everyone who did something or didnt do a thing but show up to work. i feel that officers who work and get out of their car will get rewarded for a job well done. side note, they dont need to get out of their car the next few days with how hot it is going to be. be safe
beachlvr0804 Jul 5, 9:58 a.m.
Gotta love these "moderators." Maybe they will be the first ones that the new quotas will be implemented on. Sometimes their judgement on what should be posted is based on their personal bias.....let's see if they'll post this. There was nothing wrong with my earlier post.....
firecaptain2000 Jul 5, 9:56 a.m.
What's next, paying firefighters for each fire they extinguish? Quotas for emergency responders are a nasty ingredient, to a bad recipe. Many will believe that firefighters will set fires and police officers will lie and plant evidence if their raise is determined by statistical goals. Most assuredly this system puts the public and RPD Officers on a collision course just so an officer can receive what? A onetime non-recurring payment and a 4% increase in health benefits? You guys should advocate to have your Chief evaluated based solely on statics. If it’s good enough for the beat cop it’s good enough for the Chief. Try starting with “officer retention”. Oh, I forgot the Chief doesn’t need a pay raise because that position was just reclassified from a pay grade 49 to a 50, when COR employees were told for the 4th year in a row there would be no job reclassification studies! Sigh… and the disparity gap widens while employee voices weaken from fatigue, as the apathy around us
davisgw Jul 5, 9:45 a.m.
I am not normally in agreement with unions but they are right this time. Chief Dolan needs to take a course in how to set useful benchmarks to measure progress. I am sure that if he asked some of the professional groups which support law enforcement they would tell him that ouota systems based on tickets written went out long ago. They create false positives and turn the community aganist the police dept. Also it gets more expensive for the city to prosecute cases, more people will be willing to challenge the tickets.
Published: 2008-01-11 14:37:00
Updated: 2010-06-21 13:53:03