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  • happymoccasins2009 Jun 29, 2012

    How is this new law going to affect those who are unemployed and have no source of income, not even unemployment?
    How are they going to pay a fine if they have no source of income?

  • TruthBKnown Banned Again02 Jun 29, 2012

    There needs to be a Constitutional amendment that disallows the use of taxation for the purposes of encouraging behavior that would be a violation of the Constitution if they tried to force the behavior directly.

    If they cannot Constitutionally force you to buy health insurance, they should not be allowed to tax you for not buying health insurance.

    If they cannot Constitutionally force you to join a gym, they should not be allowed to tax you for not joining a gym.

    If they cannot Constitutionally force you to eat broccoli, they should not be allowed to tax you for not eating broccoli.

    And on and on and on... it would be a pretty simple amendment to make. But I strongly suspect that neither party wants to do that. They like the power they have over us by being able to control our wallets.

  • lovelarvae Jun 29, 2012

    "So if you don't join a gym, you have to pay a tax."

    That is a serious question. Here's one of the first google hits when I took a look. This from a liberal blogger at washington post, even.

    "Barry Friedman, a New York University law professor who wrote a brief supporting Obamacare, argued that by affirming the ability to regulate with taxing power, the decision created a precedent for future regulation along these lines. “They can’t make you eat broccoli, but they can tax you for not eating it,” Friedman joked, by way of summarizing the meaning of the decision."

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/broccoli-tyranny-lives/2012/06/28/gJQAwxRQ9V_blog.html

  • TruthBKnown Banned Again02 Jun 29, 2012

    Serious question. Since making this thing a tax is the key to it being "Constitutional", does that mean the federal government can do any old thing they want now, and just call it a tax?

    Example, could the government decide that people need to exercise at a gym in order to be less of a health burden to the system. So if you don't join a gym, you have to pay a tax.

    This is something that needs to be changed in the Constitution if that is the case. The process for levying a tax needs to be tightened up to prevent this sort of bad behavior on the part of politicians.

  • lumberman Jun 29, 2012

    I do wish there were some way we could get a genius like Thrall Voljin hooked up with Obama then we would have all our problems solved ? Hardy har har

  • MakoII Jun 29, 2012

    unc70,

    I know someone going to Davidson who pays 14k after their financial aid package.

    NCSU? 14k

    Davidson normally costs 52k. So it goes to show you that Public Education may not be the cheapest option depending on your grades etc.

    UNC? 20k I understand right now. That's not cushy off campus housing either...

  • unc70 Jun 29, 2012

    NC Constitution regarding higher education;

    "The General Assembly shall provide that the benefits of The University of North Carolina and other public institutions of higher education, as far as practicable, be extended to the people of the State free of expense."

  • MakoII Jun 29, 2012

    jeffjohnson123,

    How did Obama "lose" on the Arizona case? SCOTUS struck it down almost entirely. The one part it didn't was already SCOTUS law, and even then they felt the need to warn against profiling.

    How can striking down 3/4ths of Arizona's statute be a "lose" for Obama? I'm confused by that characterization. Seems like quite the "win" to me.

  • Thrall-Voljin 2012 Jun 29, 2012

    "His LOSS on the immigration bill in Arizona has motivated him to manipulate federal support and open a hotline to help illegals in Arizona"

    You mean the loss where 3 out of 4 points were shot down by SCotUS, and the 4th point has no real teeth anymore? that loss? ROFL!

  • jeffjohnson123 Jun 29, 2012

    I guess this 'win' for Obama is making him even more brazen. His LOSS on the immigration bill in Arizona has motivated him to manipulate federal support and open a hotline to help illegals in Arizona.
    He is subversively underminining our democratic process. ODictator cares nothing for America or its history.

  • LambeauSouth Jun 29, 2012

    There is footage of obama telling the world this is not a tax, wral ran stories saying it wasn't a tax.

    casp3r

    So a sitting Republican appointed Justice of the Supreme Court, offers and applies his opinon, stating that this is considered a TAX all the while knowing that it was not presented in this manner by the POTUS and somehow the POTUS who clearly did not consider it a TAX is somehow lieing.......Really?

  • Thrall-Voljin 2012 Jun 29, 2012

    "Did you ever read your post? "

    Yes, but apparently you didn't.

    "Its protected speech. So you can lie all you want now."

    Yes you can, you just can't profit from it. That's fraud.

    "You dont even care that Holder got caught lying 3 times,"

    Please show me where I said that.

    "you are still circling your wagons around him."

    ROFL! You really do see the world as black and white don't you? Poor sad little RW nutter.

  • Thrall-Voljin 2012 Jun 29, 2012

    "Many government jobs are non-productive, and there are even a bunch that carry negative productivity."

    Jsut as there are many high paying private sector jobs that produce nothing. Start with professional sports.

    "that aren't include organizations like Raleigh Housing Authority, anyone who is looking for violators of the ridiculous water rules, etc."

    This is simply your opinion based solely on your bias and not on facts or reality.

  • Thrall-Voljin 2012 Jun 29, 2012

    "Really? And my husband, for the second time in as many years, is headed for the unemployment line because the private sector is NOT doing fine."

    THen why are profits up, up, up? So are jobs.

    "the PRIVATE company he worked for, until yesterday, was sold at auction this week through bankruptcy court, to a PUBLICLY owned company"

    Happens all the time, even in good financial times. He jsut has bad luck I guess.

    "I'm definitely not fine with that!"

    Nor should you be.

  • 5Rs Jun 29, 2012

    "But they've (GOP) only CUT jobs." - Mako II

    There are two kinds of jobs - productive ones and non-productive ones. Many government jobs are non-productive, and there are even a bunch that carry negative productivity.

    Productive government jobs include those functions that are a government responsibility (roads, police, etc.). Those that aren't include organizations like Raleigh Housing Authority, anyone who is looking for violators of the ridiculous water rules, etc.

  • Crumps Br0ther Jun 29, 2012

    Actually profiting from your lying is fraud, which is punishable under that law. Things you would realize if you, I dunno, actually paid attention or something.
    Thrall-Voljin 2012

    Did you ever read your post? Its protected speech. So you can lie all you want now. You dont even care that Holder got caught lying 3 times, you are still circling your wagons around him.

  • 5Rs Jun 29, 2012

    "Actually profiting from your lying is fraud, which is punishable " - Thrall

    So most politicians, particularly presidents, should be punished? Sounds like a good idea to me.

  • aetius476 Jun 29, 2012

    "Really? C'mon dude be realistic! The post office is going broke! How can you say government will get this right after they mess up everything else they have ever run." - Crumps Br0ther

    Give Obama's Thrall a break. You don't bite the hand that feeds you, nomatter how messed up it is.

    If it cost you "nothin" who cares, let others pay the bill...

  • clabeff Jun 29, 2012

    "I hate to point out the obvious, but the private sector IS doing "fine". Meaning, private corporations. Even smaller businesses are picking up.

    Typically they feel the recession first and recover first, but hiring lags. Every business owner I've known is now getting more work than they can handle. It's going to be a great summer for private enterprise.

    Plus we all knew that private large corporations have been posting the largest % gains during the past 2 years while we've seen cuts to government.

    MakoII"

    Really? And my husband, for the second time in as many years, is headed for the unemployment line because the private sector is NOT doing fine. Quite the contrary...the PRIVATE company he worked for, until yesterday, was sold at auction this week through bankruptcy court, to a PUBLICLY owned company (and it's affiliates), who are now closing all of the stores, including the one he worked in. AND...he didn't get his last paycheck. I'm definitely not fine with that!

  • Thrall-Voljin 2012 Jun 29, 2012

    "Well as we discussed yesterday the SCOTUS said its OK to lie, by voting down Stolen Valor Act and covered it under freedom of speech."

    No, what they said was that it is protected speech. If it wasn't Rush Limbaugh would have been in jail years ago. As he shuld have been for the drug charges.

    "So I guess if you can lie to get what you want it doesnt really matter now does it?"

    Actually profiting from your lying is fraud, which is punishable under that law. Things you would realize if you, I dunno, actually paid attention or something.

  • Crumps Br0ther Jun 29, 2012

    Please remember, this is gov't run healthcare, like Social Security, the gov't will mess it up."

    Or they won't.
    Thrall-Voljin 2012

    Really? C'mon dude be realistic! The post office is going broke! How can you say government will get this right after they mess up everything else they have ever run. I will buy an ounce of whatever you are toking.

  • Crumps Br0ther Jun 29, 2012

    Crumps Br0ther you really need to change the "C" to a "G" anyways, I say the WMD lie trumps all those when you factor in the loss of military personell!
    LambeauSouth

    More b-b-but Bush...Well as we discussed yesterday the SCOTUS said its OK to lie, by voting down Stolen Valor Act and covered it under freedom of speech. So I guess if you can lie to get what you want it doesnt really matter now does it?

  • Mon Account Jun 29, 2012

    I doubt Obamacare will cure America's obesity or lack of exercise. Instead it will drive up costs in a vain attempt to treat the symptoms of a poorly motivated society.
    mep

    Did you take into account the people who let a cold progress to pneumonia and get treatment in an ER instead of getting (cheaper) preventative treatment? Untreated diabetes that goes to a coma? There are many progressions where people don't get preventative care, as you point out in the form of taking care of yourself with diet and exercise.

    But taking care of yourself includes going to a doctor. If you have health care you will use it. If you don't you will wait until it becomes very expensive to treat (at someone else's expense). Having health coverage can prevent treatable disorders from progressing to (expensive) medical emergencies.

  • casp3r Jun 29, 2012

    ( www.youtube.com/watch?v=5 )

    Obama plainly says it is not a tax on national tv

  • lumberman Jun 29, 2012

    Lambeausouth Yes I think sex is good for you. BUT if you have unprotected sex and get AIDS or another issue then sex is bad and costly for you. I say outlaw it right now ! Let's also add a helmet and fire suit to anyone that drives a car or truck. Can not be to safe. Pile it on Obama I am sure we can pay more and more.

  • casp3r Jun 29, 2012

    Mako*

    Obama never called this a tax, the lawyers did at the supreme court.

    There is footage of obama telling the world this is not a tax, wral ran stories saying it wasn't a tax.

  • JoCo50 at MXR Jun 29, 2012

    I love the idea that previously unaffordable health care is somehow going to be made affordable for everyone by simply running it through the government bureaucracy or that people who cannot presently afford to buy insurance will somehow magically be able to buy it after it becomes a law that you have to.

    People dumb enough to believe that deserve what's coming.

  • MakoII Jun 29, 2012

    BTW, I voted for the current GOP legislature here in NC.

    They promised us JOBS. They said, unlike the Democrats, they were going to do their own job!

    But they've only CUT jobs.

    And now the government is going to come in and take over our health care exchange BECAUSE this GOP legislature didn't do their jobs and write a plan.

    They gambled that Obamacare would fail, but had no "PLan B".

    GOP Legislature: FAIL

    Guess what? I'm voting against you now for lying and for not doing your duty with honor!

  • MakoII Jun 29, 2012

    LambeauSouth,

    Everyone here has told Gunny that he's paying for it. He knows but just chooses to ignore the point.

    And why? Its because he already gets 100% Government Run Healthcare.

    It's safe for him to point a finger at others when he enjoys 100% "socialism" for his own healthcare!

  • MakoII Jun 29, 2012

    casp3r,

    Justice Roberts and the GOP argued it wasn't a tax in order to get it heard as a case. Then now they are saying it is a tax.

    Obama said it was a tax 2 years ago, as justification for it's constitutionality (he was a constitutional law professor, does that ring a bell?) and they argued it wasn't a tax, just like the opposition, as a tactic to get it heard as a supreme court case now, as opposed to in 2016, which would unsettle the various industries not knowing the final outcome.

  • br549znc Jun 29, 2012

    Having to pay more taxes will only infuriate people even more. I think Roberts did conservatives a favor yesterday.

  • lovelarvae Jun 29, 2012

    "Unfortunately, what you will be paying for is to line the pockets of the large insurance companies (guaranteed a 20% profit), and the huge medical/drug industry cartels which will now be delivered 30 million mandatory customers to milk."

    Sounds like a good reason for single payer and getting rid of the middle-man insurance company coming between you and your doctor and taking a profit.

  • Mon Account Jun 29, 2012

    I wonder how the $813 Billion (according to CBO) in new Obamacare taxes will effect the recovery? Such a tax hike, combined with possible expiration of the Bush tax policies at year end would be a heavy blow to such a fragile economy. - aetius476

    Seriously. Do the math. "Such a tax hike" is nominal at best, but gets alarmists going. Last year the government took in 4.7 *trillion*. That 813 billion is over 10 years. Next year the income prediction is over 5 trillion, and grows each year. This 813 billion ends up less that 1%

  • Earth Brooks Jun 29, 2012

    "tax"

    Mitt Romey calls it "personal responsibility".

  • casp3r Jun 29, 2012

    My question is :

    How can anyone celebrate being lied too for a year and a half that this bill was not a tax. Obama said it,pelosi,reid, and just about every liberal poster on here yelled,screamed,and bullied everyone that this was not a tax.

    Now that is in fact a tax, another broknen promise by obama. We now have the biggest tax increase on small business and middle class people in the history of america.

    If you can only pass stuff with bold face lies how can you be happy about this?

  • lovelarvae Jun 29, 2012

    "Where were you on that one? Oh yah, its different when liberals do it."

    No, unlike you, I think it's equally wrong when Bush or Obama does it. If Obama had to be impeached in order to also convict Bush/Cheney, I'd take that package deal in a heartbeat.

  • Earth Brooks Jun 29, 2012

    "Could I get a scholarship to a good collage? Unpossible"

    Did you?

  • wral mods blow close my account Jun 29, 2012

    Stock market up 150 points today. Yesterday the GOP was saying the DOW was going off a cliff.

  • LambeauSouth Jun 29, 2012

    And so to fix the problem we increase taxes? Riiight that made no sense, thank you and leave america

    gunny462
    your already paying for it! your costs (premiums) factor in the hundreds of thousand none insured patients that are seen in ER's every year, we pay for that!I suspect if they have preventative care those non-insured numbers will decrease dramtically, thus lower premiums

  • LambeauSouth Jun 29, 2012

    B-b-but Bush! Obama promised to repeal Patriot Act and broke that promise too, how many is that now, I lost count. By passing NDAA which is the Patrtiot Act with more and bigger teeth. Where were you on that one? Oh yah, its different when liberals do it.

    Crumps Br0ther
    you really need to change the "C" to a "G"
    anyways, I say the WMD lie trumps all those when you factor in the loss of military personell!

  • LambeauSouth Jun 29, 2012

    lumberman....actually sex is good for your heart rate and actually you burn calories taking part....things you ought to know!

  • aetius476 Jun 29, 2012

    "All this law does is make it illegal to not have insurance, basically, if you don't have insurance (because you can't afford it) you'll get a fine (which you can't pay, because you can't afford it)." - Offshore

    Too funny. If you read provisions in the bill (which few have), you will find that there is NO ENFORCEMENT PROVISION.

    In fact, it prohibits most forms of enforcement outright. The thing has no teeth.

    If you don't want to purchase their overpriced, fraudulent insurance products, don't. If they attempt to fine you don't pay. Nothing will happen (based on what the bill says).

    It will be interesting to see how they can impliment this bogus scam.

  • Thrall-Voljin 2012 Jun 29, 2012

    "Life is a lot better when gov't doesn't control your every waking moment as they do in a socialist society."

    In some places it's worse actually.

  • mep Jun 29, 2012

    Did the republicans believe in the constitution when they supported warrentless wiretaps, the patriot act, sneek-and-peek searches, etc.? I'd say the republicans had a pretty poor constitutional record during the Bush years, even if they like to pretend that never happened.
    lovelarvae

    So basically all the stuff approved by the Democratically held Congress, and continued by the Obama administration?

    Fun fact of the day: Liberals are very generous when it comes to taking and handing out other peoples money. They are far less generous with their own money. The govt is not a charity.... it was never designed to tax and redistribute wealth to provide anything beyond establishing a society of rules and regulations... and of course defense. Life, liberty and the persuite of happiness was never intended to be social security, medicare, Obamacare, testing for steroids, "investing" taxpayer dollars into private companies, bailouts,... and a whole lot of other stuff we pay for.

  • aetius476 Jun 29, 2012

    "As an Independent voter, I'm pleased to say that I'm all too happy to pay more out of my pocket to allow those health care that couldn't afford it previously." - ncgayatheist

    Unfortunately, what you will be paying for is to line the pockets of the large insurance companies (guaranteed a 20% profit), and the huge medical/drug industry cartels which will now be delivered 30 million mandatory customers to milk.

    Little of your money will ever help anyone's health...

  • Thrall-Voljin 2012 Jun 29, 2012

    I see gunette is the one crying the loudest. Sorry SCotUS hurt your feeling, sparky.

  • aetius476 Jun 29, 2012

    "The statistics indicate that there has been positive movement forward since we reached "bottom" and reaching the bottom was NOT due to anything Obama did or did not do. BTW... I am an INDEPENDENT." - Objective Scientist

    All recessions have an inverted bell curve recovery, that is the nature of the cycles. Recovery was coming regardless, Obama's wasteful "stimulus", and misguided Keynesian monetary policy, have attenuated the curve, making the recovery much weaker and more draw out than it needed to be.

    We will also have the "hangover" of all the debt he added in his failed efforts to "boost" the recovery.

    I wonder how the $813 Billion (according to CBO) in new Obamacare taxes will effect the recovery? Such a tax hike, combined with possible expiration of the Bush tax policies at year end would be a heavy blow to such a fragile economy.

    I predict return to recession in 2013 if both happen.

  • NCHighlander Jun 29, 2012

    Justice Roberts decision was nothing more than simply brilliant. His decision was that the American people need to do a little thinking before they vote and that's good for all of us.

  • Offshore Jun 29, 2012

    ncgayatheist: Bless your heart. You're already paying more for healtcare to offset all the ones who can't afford it(including illegal aliens). You pay for it in higher costs at hospitals, pharmacies, etc. All this law does is make it illegal to not have insurance, basically, if you don't have insurance (because you can't afford it) you'll get a fine (which you can't pay, because you can't afford it). Please remember, this is gov't run healthcare, like Social Security, the gov't will mess it up.

  • lumberman Jun 29, 2012

    If Obama wanted to really improve health care he would have outlawed smoking, drinking and cheese burgers and sex. That in itself would improve over all health in the good ole USA. I guess I should watch what I print because Obama does not care what we the people want so he might just outlaw these things any way.

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