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  • Plenty Coups Jan 13, 2012

    hrhooton-"So instead of dumbing down my hard earned diploma and college education and making me a juvenile babysitter, give them an alternative that will make them decide how the rest of their life is going to turn out."

    I don't disagree with your post. I think you misunderstood my point. I am pointing out the reasons schools resort to these policies (which I strongly disagree with also). I am also pointing out the duplicity of conservatives who try to use high dropout rates as political ammunition in their fight against public schools without recognizing their own part in it by insisting we fail kids perpetually if they aren't performing at college prepatory level. 16 year old eighth graders tend to drop out.

  • hrhooton07 Jan 13, 2012

    Plenty Coups - 1st, not everyone is going to a 4 year university and that is ok! We need more willing to take the community college route and develop those programs for plumbers, electrician, etc. Also, what do you suppose happens to these kids once they are given (not earn) their diploma? They go on to do great and powerful things and become important and outstanding figures in society? NO ... and either way the taxpayer is supporting them until our government decides that having 5 children you can't feed and cloth has to stop. So instead of dumbing down my hard earned diploma and college education and making me a juvenile babysitter, give them an alternative that will make them decide how the rest of their life is going to turn out.

    Also .... the underlying and most unaddressed issue that contributes to this type of action is PARENTS!! Parents that don't care are ruining this country! They don't know what respect is and therefore cannot teach it to their children!

  • Plenty Coups Jan 12, 2012

    Bilzac-"But even if students WERE allowed to fail when they've earned it, what do you propose to DO with these kids who fail? If this policy irritates you and causes you to make all kinds of disparaging remarks about teachers and public education (yet again), I don't suppose you'd be too interested in government programs to help these kids find the ability to support themselves. So what do we do with them?

    And when do the parents ever have to be held accountable for these kids?"

    Excellent post. They try to insist that every student should excel even if the student has no interest in education. They try to insist that kids should be held accountable (I agree btw) but then criticize the schools for holding them accountable, or if it ends in kids dropping out (grade retention is the number one cause of dropping out of school). They insist schools reduce dropouts but then complain when grades are inflated.

  • babsd24 Jan 12, 2012

    I am so glad my child has graduated and out of the school system. I would be so very upset if I had a child that came home with a 60 let alone that the school gave them a 60 when it should have been a 30. How do you know what your child is really able to do if the school covers up the true grade?????

  • babsd24 Jan 12, 2012

    Making is so that all students graduate no matter the grade.... how is this helping them in the real world. IT WONT!

  • babsd24 Jan 12, 2012

    Why would you not just give each student an Eye-que test then Then hold each student accountable for what he is able to do. The system is making it way to easy for kids to stay lazy!

  • babsd24 Jan 12, 2012

    If you have a student that is giving it all he or she has and still only scores a 60 you don't need to lower the scale for all you need to take a look at assistance for the student that just cannot get above a 60 in the classes. There are other avenues for students that cannot make the grade put them in place instead!

  • BIlzac Jan 12, 2012

    By the way, most teachers I have ever worked with would have no opposition to a student simply getting the grade they earned. While we want all students to succeed, and will do just about anything we can think of to help make this happen, WE are just as frustrated with students who don't care as many of you are.

    Adminstrators likely feel differently, in part because of the enormous pressure put on by State and Federal officials to be a school where no student fails, as improbable as that might be.

    But even if students WERE allowed to fail when they've earned it, what do you propose to DO with these kids who fail? If this policy irritates you and causes you to make all kinds of disparaging remarks about teachers and public education (yet again), I don't suppose you'd be too interested in government programs to help these kids find the ability to support themselves. So what do we do with them?

    And when do the parents ever have to be held accountable for these kids?

  • BIlzac Jan 12, 2012

    There are good reasons on both sides of this issue, and it's not nearly as simplistic as some of you would like to make it.

    Keeping in mind that your answers have to be legally possible under the current conditions in the state and nation, I ask the following...

    If a student is lazy and irresponsible in the first nine weeks of a class and has a grade of under 20%, it is mathematically impossible for that student to pass the course. What would you like done with that student? (Actually the realistic number would be probably a grade of 45%, since even that grade would require work of 85% or better during the second nine weeks AND the final exam)

  • acsider Jan 12, 2012

    Why is this surprising to people? Johnston County has been doing this for over 3 years. It's not helping our students. It's teaching them to be irresponsible.

  • kmanc4s Jan 12, 2012

    All the people - not all kids in high school who are doing the work and earning the grades they get have their sights set on college. For those who graduate with a high school diploma and just want to enter the labor market, their diplomas value is diminished by this policy.

  • DontLikeTheSocialistObama Jan 11, 2012

    Seems they get 60 points for just writing their name on tests and assignments.

    No wonder most businesses view high school diplomas as a waste of paper and require college degrees.

  • DontLikeTheSocialistObama Jan 11, 2012

    ""Where is AdvanceED talking about accreditation of this school system? Doesn't a policy like this jeopardize accreditation a lot quicker than an assignment policy??"

    Good post. It should. - Plenty Coups"

    Advanced Ed won't say a word because liberals favor grade inflation and social promotion so that students self-esteem won't be damaged by their poor performance in school.

  • DontLikeTheSocialistObama Jan 11, 2012

    Kids should be given what they earn.

  • josephlawrence43 Jan 11, 2012

    Schools inflate grades to keep kids in school, which is what society wants. Schools graduate kids with inflated grades--and who cannot read the words on their diplomas. Part of the reason being that failing a kid in school might damage his/her selfesteem, and how he/she sees him/herself. Being flunked is an embarassment to the student in front of his/her peers. What happens to the kid after "graduation" is not the school systems problem--its societies..

  • All the People Jan 11, 2012

    "Really??? Doesn't a policy like this completely dilute the value of a Cumberland county high school diploma for the kids that are actually trying to get an education?"

    I would guess that very few, if any, of the people you are referring to (trying to get an education) are adversely affected by a dilution of value. Those kids are all likely attending a university where they can look at the GPA to determine what type of a student one was instead of simply if they graduated. While more unearned diplomas will be given out with this system, those students certainly will not be at the top of their class.

  • Plenty Coups Jan 11, 2012

    "So you're saying that anyone who questions high dropout rate shouldn't voice that fact and question reform?"

    It's dishonest for attacking public schools for not failing enough kids by passing them even when they aren't at grade level then attack them again when they don't fail enough kids through this kind of misguided policy. The republicans simply want it for political ammunition. Go ahead and question the dropout rate, but then provide solutions. Once you provide those solutions don't then attack the schools for the fact that your solutions didn't work.

  • Plenty Coups Jan 11, 2012

    "Where is AdvanceED talking about accreditation of this school system? Doesn't a policy like this jeopardize accreditation a lot quicker than an assignment policy??"

    Good post. It should.

  • kmanc4s Jan 11, 2012

    Really??? Doesn't a policy like this completely dilute the value of a Cumberland county high school diploma for the kids that are actually trying to get an education? Durham county as well?? Where is AdvanceED talking about accreditation of this school system? Doesn't a policy like this jeopardize accreditation a lot quicker than an assignment policy??

    I guess that's one way to close the achievement gap! Maybe they should start busing for socio-economic diversity in Cumberland county. That'll fix it...

  • gunny462 Jan 11, 2012

    "1. Angry parents upset that their kid should have to suffer consequences. The number 1 driving force. Everybody else's kids should get consequences except my kid"

    Interesting in that this policy does nothing but reenforce this.

    "2. Conservatives attacking high dropout rates as more ammunition in their increasing attacks on public schools"

    So you're saying that anyone who questions high dropout rate shouldn't voice that fact and question reform?

    "3. Liberals upset that we are "sending kids on a path to jail" by letting them drop out"

    To me, the only ones who should be upset are the parents AND the school.

  • ConcernedNCC Jan 11, 2012

    When I lived in Ohio some years ago (and I don't know if it's still the same), you were not allowed to leave school until age 18. Any child with an unexcused absence was warned and on the second, was sentenced to a weekend in the local juvenile facility. If the parent disagreed, they had the choice of going into jail for their child for the weekend. If a child was disobedient at home, the parent also had the right to check their child into custody for a couple of days for disciplinary action. All the kids that lived near me were very obedient kids. I wish NC had a similar policy to straighten some of them out.

  • Plenty Coups Jan 11, 2012

    "Well, there you go. Liberal controlled government education at its best"

    It is a poor rule but it has nothing to do with liberals or conservatives by themselves. If you mean valuing public education, it should be both party's as ALL of America stands to gain from an educated population. These rules were put into place because of attacks from multiple sources. The top three:

    1. Angry parents upset that their kid should have to suffer consequences. The number 1 driving force. Everybody else's kids should get consequences except my kid.

    2. Conservatives attacking high dropout rates as more ammunition in their increasing attacks on public schools.

    3. Liberals upset that we are "sending kids on a path to jail" by letting them drop out.

    So what are the schools to do when they are attacked from all sides?

  • seanmic33 Jan 11, 2012

    This is a terrible thing to teach a student. Accountability is something as parents we work at from the moment our children are old enough to understand right from wrong. To allow a student to do nothing if they choose, and to basically tell them "its okay" will enable a student to think that this behavior can be adopted to other situations that may arise in their life is one of the most irresponsible things I have ever heard of! My family and I are not from here, and so are alot of other families. This is scary, and I think a lot of parents including myself are thinking twice now about having our children in this school sysytem. Give people a reason to stay here! Right now, this county is giving families every reason to leave. It is our duty to protest these children, and to help them mature into responsible adults. This decision does not benefit students, it only discourages them from reaching their full potential.

  • 007_Bat Jan 11, 2012

    Well, there you go. Liberal controlled government education at its best,

  • gallbury Jan 11, 2012

    Why not just give them a diploma and be done with it; grades don't count; only quotas and phony-bologna teaching positions. And if they all turn out to be literary imbeciles, unable to read and write or get a decent job; who cares. They will have a diploma and the local administrations will be off the hook.

  • justaconservativeguy Jan 11, 2012

    I never said that where a student comes from affects there learning or ability to learn. My point is that schools in different areas have different needs and the students have different needs. I have also stated that education would be better off handled at the local level. That is it. All students should be held to a higher standard, all students deserve a better education.

    Some of you people read so much into people's statements.

  • wildcat Jan 11, 2012

    I'd like to know what the attendance policy is as well or if they have one.
    kal

    Attending to school every day is very good. Parents that allow their child to not attend school when there is nothing wrong with the child is really enabling the child. Life lesson will be hard for the the child. Parents be the parents and not their friend. DO YOU THE PARENTS REALLY WANT YOUR CHILD TO FAIL? IF NOT, THEN BE THERE FOR THEM AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. THERE ARE MANY PROGRAMS IN SCHOOLS TODAY THAT CAN HELP YOUR CHILD. CHECK IT OUT.

  • wildcat Jan 11, 2012

    I do stand behind my comments and belive every student have a right to learn and receive an education. But if they want to be a failure, so be it. Parents need to be more responsible in seeing that their child will not be a failure. Parents will meet with the teacher and do all they can so that their own child will never fail in school and in life. That would be being a real parent.

  • wildcat Jan 11, 2012

    Careful with the blind faith...
    Billfisher

    Get over yourself and learn from my comments. Thanks. Have a great day. :)

  • kal Jan 11, 2012

    They are not the only school system. I'd like to know what the attendance policy is as well or if they have one.

  • wildcat Jan 11, 2012

    If the students can be STREET SMART, they can surely be SCHOOL SMART. STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR THE FAILURES. LIFT UP THE STUDENTS WHO ARE PROGRESSING WELL.

  • Billfisher Jan 11, 2012

    They are right whether anyone agree with that fact or not.
    wildcat

    Careful with the blind faith...

  • wildcat Jan 11, 2012

    justaconservativeguy

    Affluent or Rural is no excuse why a child cannot learn. Stop sterotying students. They all have a right to learn. Why are you being the one to deny them this much? Education is for all and not for certain ones.

  • wildcat Jan 11, 2012

    didn't know that. Well if the student was concerned about their average they wouldn't get an "F".

    You are absolute right on that. Many failing students can do better. But they choose to be foolish and no parents to tell them otherwise. In life they will learn a hard lesson. Better listen to the teachers. They are right whether anyone agree with that fact or not.

  • justaconservativeguy Jan 11, 2012

    billo
    You missed my point. Trust me I am not in favor of duming down anything. I believe that students should be held accountable. I am just saying that schools in different areas have differnt needs and to compare the two are not accurate.
    I taught in one high school where there were more affluent students. I taught in another that was rural, more of the kids were from a farming or trade background. The rural school should have offered more courses (agriculture/trade) to benefit the students, but they could not. What you had was a bunch of students not interested in school or the classes that they were required by law to take. Now, I am not saying that rural schools should not offer college prpe courses, I am just saying that these schools were different with different needs. However, because of federal law, the actual needs of these schools were not addressed. What our leaders and society in general need to realize is that not every student is able to or wants to get a 4

  • wildcat Jan 11, 2012

    When the student decides to drop-out of school, the companies and fast-food places should absolutely not hired them because they do not attend regular school or have a high school diploma or GED. Companies need to tighten up on hiring students who think they can make it without an education. Prove them wrong by not hiring them if they are not in school every day. There is no excuse for FAILURE!

  • TheBigLC Jan 11, 2012

    "Clark said the state does not have data on how many school districts have a minimum failing grade, but she noted that low "F"s can have a damaging impact on a student's average." Really??? I didn't know that. Well if the student was concerned about their average they wouldn't get an "F". This is all about blaming teachers because we all know all children care about their grades.

  • wildcat Jan 11, 2012

    Why keep slapping the students on the wrists with an easy way out of learning? Teach and give assignments to the students. parents make sure they do it. If they fail, they retain them back in the same class the next year. Sooner or later they will get it when they realize their classmates have move on without them. Parents YOU are not always going to be around for your children. You could be in a rest/ or nursing home, disabled or dead. When will you teach your children how to survive and take care of themselves when you are no able too? Why do you want your child to fail in life? Only You can answer that question?

  • bsup Jan 11, 2012

    This is an inversion (perversion) of the grading system. The numerical score should determine the letter grade, not vice versa! This appears to be a mathematical sleight of hand to artificially depress dropout rates and inflate grades in order to maintain federal/state funding. School administrators can rationalize the practice for a number of reasons, but in the long run the school system and the state lose.

  • wildcat Jan 11, 2012

    Another thing parents, if your child has a criminal record, this can affect them in getting a college education. In many community colleges, they now require a background check. If found that the student has a criminal record, this may hinder their chance of getting that education. Also a diploma, or GED is required before registering for any classes. You need to check this out parents.

  • wildcat Jan 11, 2012

    but some teachers argue the policy is an education in laziness and irresponsibility.

    I agree with the teacher and not the county. How is this helping the students if you cover up their failure? The students can do better than failing and they know it. In time they will come to regret this. Where is their parents in all of this? The parents should be their and see that their child does not fail their subjects and will graduate. Why settle for a GED from a community college later on, when you can graduate from high school and receive your diploma. Wake up parents of this situation, YOU are the parent and should be held accountable for your child not failing. DON'T YOU CARE?

  • thewayitis Jan 11, 2012

    I can't believe anyone thinks this is a good thing.

  • Wendellcatlover Jan 11, 2012

    "Some of you say "entitlement", you bet. How many of you who say that have a teen with a new car, a 4-G cell phone, or an I-pad?" Defiant

    Guess what? my kids got a car when they turned 16, but they worked for it and made the payments themselves. Same with their cell phones. They also were both A-B students all the way through college. THEY WORKED FOR WHAT THEY GOT.

    That's much different than some lazy kid showing up to school expecting a grade they haven't earned with a car or phone that my tax dollars paid for through some entitlement program! If you can't see the difference, you must be one of those on the receiving end of the programs!

  • bill0 Jan 11, 2012

    "There is no way you can compare schools against each other. A rural school is going to have a a completely different make up and a differnet set of needs compared to a city school. "

    What a bunch of nonsense. Every student in X grade should take the same test. Differences in income etc can be noted and explained quite easily. That is statistics 101.

    More importantly though, every child deserves a decent education. It shouldn't matter if you are rich or poor, white or black, or a city dweller or farmer. Dumbing down the standards and making excuses does NOT benefit kids. All it does it make adults feel better about themselves.

  • sunshine1040 Jan 11, 2012

    Is theis what is meant by NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND? They are doing no one a favor with this policy. The rule in my home was you go to school you pay attention in class do homework and respect teacher. or you get a job. The disruptive student takes the teachers time away from those that are ther to learn and lowers everones achievement level

  • bean112455 Jan 11, 2012

    I once read something where kids in a class complained about the grades given out, so the teacher decided to average all grades earned by all students. At then end of the semester, all students failed that class. Why, because those who were A earners gave up working so hard trying to keep the losers afloat. They all failed and still thought this was not fair. Is it fair? NO, so why does 53% of Americans work and contribute taxes to keep up the 47% who don't and are receiving some form if not all forms of socialize welfare benefits? Folks you better get with the program and get our socialistic President Obama out of Washington in November. Otherwise, this good old USA as we know it is headed down a road of despair and doom. Growing kids who aren't required to work for themselves starting with a solid passing education is only going to lead to more depending on welfare to keep them up. I say, don't do it Cumberland.

  • Billfisher Jan 11, 2012

    And everyone wonders why private school enrollment is up dramatically.

  • DurhamDevil Jan 11, 2012

    School systems in the Triangle have been doing the same.

    Kids now come to school for a free breakfast, a free lunch, and a free grade.

    And its not a surprise that the great majority of the trouble-makers in the classroom are the ones getting the freebies.

  • Billfisher Jan 11, 2012

    "The world needs ditch diggers too"

    Eventhough it's a line from Caddyshack, it still holds true.

  • TheBigLC Jan 11, 2012

    Where are all the liberals defending this policy? Hmmm? Isn't this the same as the redistribution of wealth occupy wall street crowd?

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