WRAL Investigates: Guns and mental illness

.

>>> STEPS HAVE BEEN TAKEN TO

KEEP THE MENTALLY ILL FROM

GETTING GUN, BUT THERE ARE

CASES THAT SLIP THROUGH THE

SYSTEM.

WE HAVE MORE WITH KELCEY

CARLSON.

>> Reporter: YES, WE ARE

TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO CAN NO

LONGER OWN A FIREARM FOR MENTAL

HEALTH REASONS.

STATES WERE SUPPOSED TO GET

BETTER ABOUT REPORTING THE CASE

TO A FEDERAL DATABASE, THE

NATIONAL INSTANT CRIMINAL

BACKGROUND CHECK SYSTEM.

THIS IS A LOOK AT IT AND HOW IT

WORKS.

YOU CAN SEE THE NUMBER OF STEPS

PEOPLE HAVE TO GO THROUGH.

A JUDGE'S RULING OF COMPETENCE

IS SUPPOSED TO GO STRAIGHT TO

THE DENY CATEGORY, BUT WE

FOUND OUT THERE IS NO GUARANTEE

AS TO IF OR WHEN THOSE CASES

WILL MAKE IT TO THE DATABASE.

IN 2007 VIRGINIA TECH STUDENT

KILLED 32 PEOPLE IN A SHOOTING

RAMPAGE ON CAMPUS.

AS IT WOULD TURN OUT, HE WAS

SOMEONE WHO NEVER SHOULD HAVE

BEEN ALLOWED TO BUY A GUN.

>> THE AFTERMATH OF THAT

DETERMINED HE HAD PREVIOUSLY

BEEN ADJUDICATED BY A VIRGINIA

COURT AS HAVING MENTAL ILLNESS,

BUT THE VIRGINIA COURT DIDN'T

REPORT THAT INFORMATION TO THE

FBI SO WHEN HE WENT TO BUY A

GUN IT DIDN'T SHOW NUCLEAR

WEAPON THE BACKGROUND CHECK

SYSTEM THAT THE FBI

ADMINISTERS.

>> Reporter: JEFF WELTY IS WITH

THE UNC SCHOOL OF GOVERNMENT

WHICH ADVISES GOVERNMENT

OFFICIALS ON THE LAW.

VIRGINIA TECH EXPOSED A

LOOPHOLE.

FROM WASHINGTON TO RALEIGH

LAWMAKERS HAVE TRIED TO FIX IT

AND THAT IS WHERE LEGISLATION

MEETS REALITY.

>> THERE ARE STILL A LARGE

NUMBER OF STATES THAT

CONTRIBUTE NO MENTAL HEALTH

RECORDS BASED ON PRIVACY

CONCERNS OR TECHNOLOGICAL

BARRIERS.

>> Reporter: THAT CONCERNS DAVE

BECK, A PAWNSHOP OWNER WHO

DEPENDS ON THE FEDERAL DATABASE

BEFORE SELLING GUNS.

>> WE ARE TOTALLY DEPENDANT ON

LAW ENFORCEMENT.

WE HAVE NO WAY TO KNOW THIS.

>> Reporter: BECK REFUSED TO

SELL A GUN TO A CUSTOMER IN

2007 WHO BECAME THE SUBJECT OF

A FEDERAL COURT CASE.

BECK RELIED ON HIS GUT ALONE.

>> WE GOT A REAL UNCOMFORTABLE

FEELING.

WE CHOSE TO DECLINE.

WE DON'T HAVE TO SELL IT.

>> Reporter: DO YOU REMEMBER

WHAT HE SAID TO YOU?

>> HE SAID HE WOULD GO

SOMEWHERE ELSE.

>> Reporter: ACCORDING TO COURT

RECORDS, THAT CUSTOMER, BARRY

LEWIS, HAD ALREADY PURCHASED A

RIFLE SOMEWHERE ELSE A WEEK

EARLIER EVEN THOUGH THE COURTS

RULED HE WAS PROBATED FOR

HAVING ONE FOR MENTAL --

PROHIBITED FOR HAVING ONE FOR

MENTAL HEALTH REASONS.

EVEN IN NORTH CAROLINA, A

STATE WITH HIGH MARKS WHEN IT

COME TO REPORTING, THERE IS A

GREY AREA.

>> IT IS NOT AS EASY AS TYPING

SOMEONE'S NAME INTO A COMPUTER

AND EVERYTHING POPS UP ON ONE

SCREEN?

>> NO.

>> Reporter: WAKE COUNTY'S

CLERK OF COURT WILL GO BACK TO

JANUARY OF 2002 TO REPORT

PEOPLE PROHIBITED FROM OWNING A

FIREARM BY THE COURTS FOR

MENTAL HEALTH REASON, BUT THE

POLICIES WILL VARY FROM COUNTY

TO COUNTY.

>> A CLERK OF COURT IN ANOTHER

COUNTY, DIFFERENT STATE, MAY

BE A DIFFERENT POLICY?

>> IT MAY BE DIFFERENT.

I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO

THAT.

>> IT DOESN'T SAY HOW FAR BACK

THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO GO, THE

TIME FRAME IN WHICH THEY ARE

SUPPOSED TO REPORT THE RECORDS.

THERE IS A LOT OF VARIABILITY

AND UNCERTAINTY.

>> Reporter: SOME LAWMAKERS ARE

TRYING TO FIX THE LINGERS

LOOPHOLES.

IF A JUDGE RULES SOMEONE

INCOMPETENT OR INSANE, THE

LOCAL CLERK SHOULD ALERT

FEDERAL OFFICIALS BUT THE LAW

SAY THAT IS MUST HAPPEN AS SOON

AS PRACTICAL.

REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS IN

NORTH CAROLINA ARE BOTH PUSHING

A 48 HOUR REPORTING PRESIDENT,

OVER BILL ON BOTH SIDES OF THE

ALE ARE TIED TO CONTROVERSIAL

GUN LEGISLATION.

REPRESENTATIVE PAUL LUD GIVE

ADMITS HIS BILL WON'T MOVE BUT

THE 48 HOUR REPORTING DECISION

MAY.

>> EVERY TIME THERE IS A

KILLING IT IS NOT ALWAYS

BECAUSE SOMEONE TRIED TO

PURCHASE A GUN, BUT THERE IS

ALWAYS THE CHANCE SOMEONE WILL

TRY TO PURCHASE A GUN LEGALLY

AND GO OUT AND SHOOT A BUNCH OF

PEOPLE.

THIS AT LEAST CAPTURE THAT IS

PART OF THE GROUP.

>> Reporter: GUN RIGHTS GROUPS

SUPPORT THE IDEA TO TIGHTEN THE

LOOPHOLE.

>> I THINK GENERALLY AMERICANS

VALUE THIS 2nd AMENDMENT THE

RIGHT TO KEEP AND BARE ARM,

BUT WE AGREE ONLY THE PEOPLE

LAWFULLY ENTITLED TO KEEP AND

POSSESS FIREARMS ARE DOING IT.

>> Reporter: THE STATE

SECRETARY OF THE DEPARTMENT OF

PUBLIC SAFETY SEES TECHNOLOGY

AS ONE OF THE BIGGEST BARRIERS

NATIONWIDE.

>> WE HAVE TO BUILD SYSTEM THAT

IS CAN TALK TO EACH OTHER.

>> Reporter: UNIFORM LAWS WOULD

ALSO HELP.

ACCORDING TO THE CONGRESSIONAL

RESEARCH SERVICE, 25 STATES,

HALF THE COUNTRY, HAVE NO LAWS

REQUIRING STATE TO REPORT

MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE TO THE

FEDERAL GUN DATABASE,

INCLUDING OUR NEIGHBOR, SOUTH

CAROLINA.

WHETHER IT IS ANOTHER CUSTOMER

IN DAVE BECK'S PAWNSHOP, OR

PREVENTING ANOTHER TRAGEDY LIKE

VIRGINIA TECH --

>> THIS IS SOMETHING THAT

SHOULD HAVE BEEN READILY

DISCLOSED WHEN THE BACKGROUND

CHECK WAS DONE.

>> Reporter: MANY SAY THERE IS

STILL WORK TO BE DONE THE THE

BACKGROUND CHECKS.

>> WE DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO

PREVENT PEOPLE WHO DON'T

DESERVE A WEAPON FROM GETTING

ONE, BUT DOES IT HAPPEN?

YES.

>> Reporter: NOW THERE IS A

DEBATE IN NORTH CAROLINA OVER

WHO SHOULD BE DISQUALIFIED FOR

OWNING A FIREARM FOR MENTAL

HEALTH REASONS.

GUN RIGHTS GROUPS ARGUE PEOPLE

INVOLUNTARY COMMITTED WITHOUT

OUTPATIENT SERVICES SHOULD NOT

BE LUMPED INTO THIS CATEGORY.

TODAY NORTH CAROLINA SUBMITTED

ABOUT 35,000 OF THE RECORDS TO

THE FEDERAL DATABASE.

IF THE 48 HOUR RULE PASSES,

NORTH CAROLINA WOULD HAVE THE

FIFTH SPEEDIEST DEADLINE IN THE

COUNTRY.

>> WOW!

>> YES.

WE WILL CONTINUE TO WATCH THIS.