Log in to WRAL.com with one click using your favorite social network:
OR
Log in using your WRAL.com account:



Wrong email/password combination.

Forgot password?

Register with WRAL.com using your favorite social network:
OR
Register for a WRAL.com account using our web form.

7:18 a.m. • 5-19-13

Weather Forecast for Raleigh

  • Today: Thunderstorm.
    • Hi: 78° F
  • Mon: Thunderstorm.
    • Hi: 78° F
  • Tue: Thunderstorm.
    • Hi: 83° F

Other Locations

> 7 Day Forecast

Doppler Image
@NCCapitol
Money generic, dollars
print friendly

Higher taxes on food, services could replace NC income tax

Published: 2013-01-17 16:49:00
Updated: 2013-01-17 18:35:15

Republican legislative leaders are crafting a package of changes to North Carolina's tax code that they say will stimulate economic growth, including slapping a 6 percent sales tax on groceries.

Lawmakers phased out the state sales tax on food in the late 1990s, saying that scrapping the 4 percent tax would give low-income families a needed break. Counties continue to collect a 2 percent food tax.

The GOP, which now controls the General Assembly, is pushing to lower the individual and corporate income tax and use a higher state sales tax applied to more things to make up for the lost income tax revenue. Food should be taxed, they say, because grocery spending is dependable.

Senate President Pro Tem Phil Berger said Wednesday that the state's current tax model dates to the 1930s and doesn't really fit to North Carolina's changing economy. So, tax reform is critical to the state's future.

"It's important for us in terms of our competitive posture with other states," he said. "It's important for us in terms of making sure we have a fair allocation of the cost of government across the spectrum of economic activity."

Details of the tax reform package are likely to be rolled out later this month, but the prospect of a higher sales tax on food already leaves many shoppers with a bad taste in their mouths.

"Food is high enough now. Everything is taxed – taxes here, taxes there," Phyllis Branch said Thursday. "We've got to eat, so they kind of got us in a bind."

Raising the sales tax on food from 2 percent to 8 percent would add $312 to the annual grocery bill for someone who spends $100 a week on food at the supermarket.

"It's not a progressive tax, where those at the higher end pay more and those at the lower end pay less," said Bill Rowe, general counsel and director of advocacy for the left-leaning North Carolina Budget and Tax Center. "Everybody's paying the same amount, and so, if you're of modest means, you're going to be paying a lot more in taxes that way."

Republican lawmakers contend that those costs will be offset by lower income taxes. Rowe notes, however, that many low-income families don't owe any state income tax, so they won't benefit from a cut.

"It just really appears to be making up for cuts for folks at the higher end and corporations, which really does strike me as being a very unfair way to go," Rowe said.

Read More Posts from this Blog

490 Comments


WRAL.com welcomes your comments on this story. All comments are moderated prior to publication based on our posting guidelines. Please review them prior to posting and if your message is not approved.

This story is closed for comments. Comments on WRAL.com news stories are accepted and moderated between the hours of 8 a.m. and 8 p.m. Monday through Friday.


page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11
<prev    next>
sort order: oldest first | newest first

Haven't read all the comments but here's the beauty of a consumption tax as opposed to an income tax: it doesn't punish someone for earning money. I like that message.

I suspect that's what some people hate about a consump tax. Because for once, the earners who get up and go to work every day to support the welfare crowd get a break, and the takers have to pay a small part of their own "free" stuff via food tax! It isn't so wonderful when they're forced to see where the "free" cash comes from!

And, I can't begin to guess how many times I have been behind folks paying for groceries with food stamps that I help fund then turn right around and drop 40 or 50 dollars on lottery tickets. Enough to pay the 8% sales tax for over a month. GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"The libs and democrats keep whining about the rich "paying their fair share" well this will meet that demand!"

It absolutely does not - the wealthy will pay tax on a small portion of their income because their purchases are far less than their income, and nothing on investments, while a low and middle class taxpayer pays most of their monthly salary for goods and services and will therefore be paying a much higher share.

Grand union, I'll let you look up state economic data for those who do not charge state income tax and have higher sales taxes instead - you DO know how to do your own research right?

I don't spoon feed people, I give them the spoon and let them learn all by themselves, then they don't become dependent on others to feed them ;)

"It's not a progressive tax, where those at the higher end pay more and those at the lower end pay less," said Bill Rowe, general counsel and director of advocacy for the left-leaning North Carolina Budget and Tax Center. "Everybody's paying the same amount,

"families don't owe any state income tax, so they won't benefit from a cut."

DUH, EVEYBODY should pay some taxes and this is the only way that can happen. Even though it will be a very tiny part of the taxes collected, at least they would be contributing SOMETHING. They surely take enough.

"sigh.......everyone eats about the same so a tax on food is a bigger burden the less you are paid, it is a bigger part of your disposable income. ie its a regressive tax that hurts more the less you make. me, it won't hurt at all....in fact I'll likely be ahead but wrong is wrong, and this is just plain wrong."

So it's unfair that some people make more money than others? Got it.

and why would we structure our taxes to force more on to welfare

Grand Union

Ask Barry, the role have skyrocketed under his superb leadership

""It has stimulated jobs and the economy in every state where this has been done."

yet you can link to not a single one....weird. Click to view my profile Grand Union"

Alaska, Nevada, Tennessee and Texas are excellent examples of a robust business economy in states that don't have state income taxes.

"Ugh, no. You greatly misunderstand how corporate taxes work. The tax rate is applied to PROFIT, not gross sales. It is ALWAYS better for a business to set their price at a level that generates maximum profits and then pay whatever tax is due. It is NEVER a good idea to raise prices beyond what is optimal because that automatically lowers profit. "

Bill- What the fudge are you talking about? A business has a profit threshold to meet to make the business viable. The taxes taken out of that profit are very much a part of what the final product price is to a customer. Corporate taxes absolutely are a factor in higher overall prices that consumers pay, that employees are paid, etc. They're called corporate taxes, but we all pay them. If you think the lower wage earners are somehow shielded from this, you're mistaken. That's all I was saying.

"So what you are saying is services are not taxed and goods are. That still applies to both rich and poor across the board.

Except the wealthy spend a much larger percentage of their income on services and the poor spend a lot larger percentage of their income on basic goods that will get hit with a sales tax. Therefore, the poor end up paying a HIGHER percentage of their income as tax than the wealthy. That is an absolutely backward tax system.

"And you don't think business equate taxes into what is needed to maximize profits? You know, increase the cost in order to maximize the after tax profit. Of course, they do it the other way too, reduce expenses (i.e. hire less people) to maximize the overall profit."

Good lord. I hardly know where to start. You seem to not understand basic economics. The taxes a business pays on profits has absolutely nothing to do with what customers will pay for a product. Nothing. Zero. It's "Supply and Demand" not "Supply and Demand and Taxes". If businesses arbitrarily increase the cost of their product, fewer people buy it and the company makes less profit. Sure, you pay less taxes, but that is because you are making less money! No business in their right mind does that. Unless you are talking about bribing congressmen for special tax loopholes, the way to maximize after tax profit is to maximize pre-tax profit.

LOl why would a business have more people than it needs?

Grand Union

I guess you have never seen the DOT "at work", you got 10 guys standing around and one digging a hole. But that's state government its OK for it to be bloated

Drop all tax's of any kind and go to a 20% -25% sales tax only for any thing consumed by consumers.That means all illegals,people visiting,driving through state,citizens of the state etc. This is a tax proposed by Fair Tax.org look at it for a better understanding of how it works. The libs and democrats keep whining about the rich "paying their fair share" well this will meet that demand! Check it out and get on board for supporting it.

"It has stimulated jobs and the economy in every state where this has been done. Danny22"

keep hearing this.....yet nobody can show it to be the case.

"No one will starve. There are plenty of programs you are so protective of, that people will be able to use if they have too. Unless you dont think those programs are working, in which case need to get rid of them and save that money for something else that will work."

trouble is you and Art don't care if they work or not and plan to be rid of them all...... and why would we structure our taxes to force more on to welfare......shouldn't we reward those that work even if their wages are low?

As a college student who DOES pay income tax, this is still beyond my means.

And my friends who still, surprisingly enough, buy groceries unable to support a job due to hectic school schedules? There's no hope for them. This is absurd.

"A tax that would be applied evenly across the board for everyone is somehow not fair? When did fair become unfair, and special treatment become fair?"

sigh.......everyone eats about the same so a tax on food is a bigger burden the less you are paid, it is a bigger part of your disposable income. ie its a regressive tax that hurts more the less you make. me, it won't hurt at all....in fact I'll likely be ahead but wrong is wrong, and this is just plain wrong.

"Think of it this way. If you do your laundry yourself, you pay sales tax on the washing machine and the soap. If you hire someone to drive to your house, pick up your laundry, have it all dry cleaned and pressed, then you owe no sales tax. Even if you spend 100 times more on the fancy service, you pay no tax while the average person does."

So what you are saying is services are not taxed and goods are. That still applies to both rich and poor across the board. If the poor don't want to pay sales tax on a washer/dryer, there's always the laundramat. Or, gasp, there is hand washing and line drying.

"It has stimulated jobs and the economy in every state where this has been done."

yet you can link to not a single one....weird.

"Of course, they do it the other way too, reduce expenses (i.e. hire less people) to maximize the overall profit."

LOl why would a business have more people than it needs? Do you imagine they keep them for fun? Its the employees that generate the profit that gets taxed, less employees means less profit irregardless of tax paid on the profit.

"The tax rate is applied to PROFIT, not gross sales. It is ALWAYS better for a business to set their price at a level that generates maximum profits and then pay whatever tax is due." - bill0

And you don't think business equate taxes into what is needed to maximize profits? You know, increase the cost in order to maximize the after tax profit. Of course, they do it the other way too, reduce expenses (i.e. hire less people) to maximize the overall profit.

It has stimulated jobs and the economy in every state where this has been done. Danny22

B-b-but the poor...

They would have job now wouldnt they?

"A tax that would be applied evenly across the board for everyone is somehow not fair? When did fair become unfair, and special treatment become fair? "

I'm assuming you don't know much/anything about what gets taxed under sales taxes. It certainly isn't everything and it certainly isn't across the board. eg a vacation home = no sales tax. Paying a maid or private chef = no sales tax.

Think of it this way. If you do your laundry yourself, you pay sales tax on the washing machine and the soap. If you hire someone to drive to your house, pick up your laundry, have it all dry cleaned and pressed, then you owe no sales tax. Even if you spend 100 times more on the fancy service, you pay no tax while the average person does.

Because its a regressive tax. Likely too complex a subject for your pay grade but read about it here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regressive_tax Grand Union

so we finally find a tax liberals dont like.

No one will starve. There are plenty of programs you are so protective of, that people will be able to use if they have too. Unless you dont think those programs are working, in which case need to get rid of them and save that money for something else that will work.

A tax that would be applied evenly across the board for everyone is somehow not fair? When did fair become unfair, and special treatment become fair? rocket

when youre raised in an enviroment where you told you are victim and are owed something

Here it is check if for yourself:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1734&dat=19861014&id=zFIcAAAAIBAJ&sjid=7VEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6988,5166222 Fun

that popping noise youre hearing is from liberal heads asploding!

tracmister, Something wrong when a family of 4 spends 300 per week for groceries.

It has stimulated jobs and the economy in every state where this has been done.

"socialist like George Orwell"

Why would a Socialist write a book that shows the evil of IngSoc (English Socialism) is such a stark light???

In 1961, then Governor Terry Sanford coaxed the Republicans to REMOVE THE 3% FOOD TAX EXCEPTION. He taxed food and put the money in education giving the teachers a 22% pay raise-

Here it is check if for yourself:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1734&dat=19861014&id=zFIcAAAAIBAJ&sjid=7VEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6988,5166222

A tax that would be applied evenly across the board for everyone is somehow not fair? When did fair become unfair, and special treatment become fair?

Wouldn't everyone agree that IF our elected would seek ways to cut their wasteful spending as vigoriously as they seek ways to gouge more money from the taxpayers that we would in the very near future be running our state in the black?

Couples with children are no different than the illegals. They dont pay their fair share of taxes and they are the ones that benefit the most. The income tax deduction forces me to help pay for you to feed them and we have to pay for their eduction. Dont critize the illegals when you getting that income tax deduction and you dont pay your fair share. The joke is on you and you dont even realize it.

Just think the illegal people in this state would be paying taxes instead, they have to buy food. I say go for it.

Let's see. Poor and middle class net taxes go up as those groups spend a higher proportion of their incomes on food. But BILLIONAIRES LIKE ART POPE will see their net taxes go down. Didn't we vote on this in November?

The tax on food is subtracted if paying with food stamps.At least in Nc it is.

"Clearly you did not read 1984. I'm not surprised you would refuse to read a book by an avowed socialist like George Orwell."

Socialist? maybe in a 1940s sense but he was both anti fascist and anti communist and despised authoritarian government. He would have despised this tax idea too.....deliberately targeting the poor to line the pockets of the rich wasn't really his thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Orwell

Let's see. A grocery bill of $300.00 per week for a family of four. At 8% over a year that would be $1,248.00. At the current income tax a person would pay a lot more. But wait, there are deductions which most of the middle class would end up paying less than the amount above. If you think that this will be the only tax instituted by the Republicans and McCrory, then you're a fool. By the time it's all said and done the only ones who will profit and those who make at least $250,000 a year and large companies.

"You said yourself, those that pay "no or minimal state tax" will now have a little skin in the game. the rest of us do. Why should we all not chip in a little?"

That is fine if that is your position. Just be honest about it. Republicans in raleigh are not being honest about the obvious results of this type of policy change. It means big tax increases on every poor person in the state and big tax cuts to higher earners.

And BTW, most poor people do pay sales tax, they just pay little to no income tax. But yes, of course poor people get more use out of state services. That is kinda the whole point of services for the poor. It should be obvious to everyone, but people we judge so poor that they need government services by definition shouldn't be taxed. It makes no sense to take with one hand and give with the other. It also masks the true conversation we need to have - how poor do you have to be to get these services for free?

Clearly you did not read 1984. I'm not surprised you would refuse to read a book by an avowed socialist like George Orwell.

goldenosprey

I like to know my enemy so of course I read it. You see Im not afraid to search out things I dont want to hear. when you stay in an echo chamber, such as yourself, you never learn anything new because everyone agrees with you and they dont dare challenge you. Its cozy and safe, but you tend to lose touch with the rest of the world, then cant believe when someone does disagree with you, because you have been conditioned to think youre always right

"I don't know why libs are going nuts over this, they love to tell you how to spend your own money, so why not tax you on it?"

Because its a regressive tax. Likely too complex a subject for your pay grade but read about it here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regressive_tax

Don't raise the food tax! Raise taxes on cigarettes and alcohol if you want to make money. An increase in food sales tax is not a good idea! The gas tax is already high enough. Tax here, tax there but don't tax what citizens really need.

"You said yourself, those that pay "no or minimal state tax" will now have a little skin in the game. the rest of us do. Why should we all not chip in a little?"

Please explain to me why taxes should be a greater burden on the poor and middle class than they are on the wealthy?? If you are poorly paid (ie most Americans) this change will make a serious impact on their disposable income whilst the well off like me won't even notice the change. Is it not enough we pay so little people struggle to make a living? do we really have to add taxes that affect them much more than they affect the well off?

The only bright light in this is that the GOP are committing electoral suicide and we can be rid of them in 2014.

Why don't you raise the taxes on ALCOHOL you can buy a 40 ounce beer for less than a 20 ounce Coke. Pop the beer in the brown bag and drank it down the road..That is messed up..finish us off

"Ok check this, read Orwell's 1984,(it's above 5th grade reading level but if you need some help with the big words and political overtones just ask)the pigs were the antagonists in that book. So you can see where the use of pig/hog is seen as deragatory. "- CrumpsBr0

Clearly you did not read 1984. I'm not surprised you would refuse to read a book by an avowed socialist like George Orwell.

Brianwilson, are the only purchases of goods or services you make groceries? If someone buys everything else for you, great for you. The rest of us have to buy our own clothes, car parts, school supplies, doctor and dentist appointments, HVAC repair, etc. Try your math again.

If you want to increase the tax on everything else, fine, just not food. What's the problem with that??

Wow and thanks for sharing!!! oldaltar

But remember, every article warning you about Barry was just racist propaganda. Crumps Br0ther

I am not like you. I will keep an open mind and do the research. As a matter of fact I am researching Kieran Shanahan to determine if he was really found guilty of assaulting a neighbor's children. He now leads the Department of Public Safety for NC. I suggest you do the same. Once again, Wake Up!

...as long as you don't eat any food or wear any clothes or visit any doctors or get any hair cut... Most of us mortal have to do those sorts of things from time to time. goldenosprey

I see folks using their EBT to buy crabs legs and stuff while Im getting 2 for 5 buck packs of hot dogs. I see poor people buying high dollar sneakers while Im wearing whatever was on sale. a lot of poor people are on medicaid and dont pay much at the doc office anyway. There are so many programs in place to help people that all this whining is for nothing. Everyone will be OK, because you have been so protective of those programs no one is going to starve or go naked. But you guys are the awesome sauce at fear mongering.

"And yes, the poor are going to get the shaft in this change. Currently, most poor people pay minimal or no state tax. This will automatically raise their taxes." - bill0

Bill, how is being asked to contribute something towards your benefits when you have had a free ride, giving someone the "shaft"?!

You said yourself, those that pay "no or minimal state tax" will now have a little skin in the game. the rest of us do. Why should we all not chip in a little?

Tax me on what I spend... NOT what I earn! mep

I don't know why libs are going nuts over this, they love to tell you how to spend your own money, so why not tax you on it?

page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11
<prev    next>
sort order: oldest first | newest first

Political Video Picks

 
  • Dozens of proposals failed to clear the House or Senate before the General Assembly's self-imposed "crossover" deadline this week for…

  • The scandal within the Internal Revenue Service was front and center Friday on Capitol Hill, as a committee heard testimony from…

  • The House and Ways Committee holds a hearing on the Internal Revenue Service's practice of targeting conservative political groups.…

  • The state House has released its own version of a tax reform bill that lower income and sales tax rates, but makes fewer sweeping…

  • The House approved several bills before the "crossover" deadline, including measures on abortion and social media privacy.

  • President Obama says he'll hold a Rose Garden news conference Thursday to answer questions about the scandal enveloping the Internal…