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true blue in wake county's blog


speed trapping and radar

Published Feb. 5, 2009
Views: 5606

A favorite of law enforcement officers all over the state, and a not so favorite for the ones who get caught:

"I didn't realize I was driving that fast sir."

"What? No way, your radar is wrong"

"Deputy, I really had to pee...did you expect me to wet my pants?"

"I'm on my way to the hospital, its an emergency"

"Trooper, may I see the radar please"

"What about the guy in front of me that was doing at least 80, but you stopped me instead"

 "Ummm revoke my license on the spot? You can't do that" (yes we can)

We hear it all.  Some politely accept the fact that speed kills and they were indeed exceeding the limit. Works for me - here's your WARNING ticket, now slow down please.  Others - are content to argue and argue and argue and in some cases - argue themselves out of the ticket and into a nice pair of trinkets. Not something I was expecting to accomplish but hey, whose counting.

Are speed traps legal in the state? yup....can we run radar from a residential driveway in a neighborhood that we recieve a wide level of speeding complaints? Sure can....Do we actually even NEED radar to stop a person for speeding and issue either a verbal warning or a state citation? Nope. Wanna know a really sneaky trick we bad cops play? Here's a freebie - I'll back my car between the vehicles on display at car dealerships and run radar....you never even see me.  I'm dastardly like that. 

Although I myself prefer radar, I don't necessarily need it, per supreme court rulings. yes, I know - radar is not infallible, its only as accurate as the user, the cop will lie and use the radar as an "excuse" blah blah blah.  Heres the facts folks:

     No, we cannot "tamper" with the radar in order to raise the speed that you were going just so we can write specifically "you" a ticket.

     Yes, the radar does have its "moments" as far as accuracy - if in doubt, I don't stop the car.  25% of all radar tickets are in error. The most noticeable and common mistakes include shadowing, RFI interference, cosine error and mechanical interference. We as officers all understand this.

     Under NC training standards, officers are not simply handed a Crown Vic equipped with Eagle 2's and told to go forth and multiply. We attend a pretty comprehensive 40hr course with strict training standards that employs use of radar and estimation within 4 mph without radar.

Now, I'm going to really burst your bubble.  You know those really expensive Cobra's and K band radar detectors (among others) that you spend all that money on so you can speed on our freeways?  they dont work!! But *sigh* it does give you that sense of "security" huh....

Passive jammers and active jammers are designed on the theory that when an officer shoots your car with either a radar signal or laser the signal the radar/laser is reflected back to the officers device, with an added FM chirp.

The problem with this theory, if you are further away then three feet from the  radar signal, the reflected signal from your expensive detector is not strong enough to jam. There's more but I won't reveal it all here.

In short - with what I have in my unit - when your chirp goes off, I've already got you. Aint it great!!! My system uses your jam as a reflect and sends the signal back you - after I have acheived a "lock".  Theoritically, I use your own detection signal against you.

My advice? Just slow down...whats the hurry? The movie is not going anywhere, the sale will advertise again, its better to get poked in the eye for being late for work instead of never arriving again.

Enforcement of NC statute 20-16.1 is mainly what I try to focus on. That is the mandatory suspension of driver's license upon conviction of excessive speeding, exceeding by more than 15 miles per hour the speed limit, either within or outside the corporate limits of a municipality, if you were also driving at a speed in excess of 55 miles per hour at the time of the offense, or driving at a speed in excess of 80 miles per hour at the time of the offense. These are the so-called "real money" tickets.  Speeds that no doubt can get you or others around you killed quick. 

Do I care if the speed limit is 55 and you are doing 60? no, get real....I'm more interested in the speed demons and lead foots that are legitimately hauling azz. 

When you get up in the mornings and running a little late, gotta stop by daycare before the late fee kicks in - if you see the lone patrol cruiser sitting at the crest of the hill in the center of the grass - slow down because you never know....

Had a bad experience with a cop running radar and there is just NO WAY (in your mind) you were doing what he/she said you were - post it......

TRU

Filed under: Crime




215 Comments


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"This is because the radar subtracts the patrol speed of 35 from the closing speed of 80 to calculate the target speed of 45. Confused?"

I would hope not, it makes perfect sense.

Monkey boy - you should also refer to my profile page in reference to my feelings on quota's....

Everyone refers to my FOP license plate as my license to speed...Not! I rarely go more than 5-10 over the limit. Of course, that bit me in the buttt in Virginia where I was informed that 56 in a 55 was speeding and promptly given a ticket. The funniest one was when my son was late to an exam due to "road construction traffic" and pulled for going 20 over. He didn't even tell the officer that his dad was a retired cop and asked him to please write fast, that if he was late for his exam that he wouldn't graduate. It turned out that the cop that gave him the ticket was his dad's roommate in the police academy. I thought our attorney was going to pass out laughing when he saw who wrote the ticket. The guy felt so ad and said that my son was one of the most polite teenagers that he had ever stopped.

I just wish instead of focusing on speed, it's on driver ability. Just this past weekend I was driving behind someone on a two lane road, speed limit 45, he's driving 40 and couldn't keep within the lanes. It was the middle of the day, no traffic, clear weather, and I don't think he was drunk, just not attentive. I've driven that road many times, I could go 55 and still stay within the lanes. I'd consider the inattentive driver more dangerous than the fast driver.

Cartman - I've stopped people for erratic driving and weaving only to hear "I was trying to keep your lights out of my mirrors" The shock on thier faces when you tell them how about adjusting your mirrors instead of your position in the roadway....

I thought a trap implied some trickery to snag the person. Like when the limit drops suddenly from 55 to 35 without enough warning. (I've only seen this once in a REALLY small town.) A cop sitting with a radar on a stretch of road with the limits clearly marked is hardly a speed trap.

True Blue - this guy was talking to his wife, not paying attention, but in the process scaring every car coming the other direction as he drove into their lane.

It's crazy how many bad drivers I encounter (I'm sure you see more). I drive fast, but am aware of my surroundings and have a vehicle that can handle the speed.

Cartman, I've seen it all, just like on the Allstate commercial. The "make-up artist" the multi-tasker, the bookworm who is reading the paper and driving, and the most annoying - soccor mom with the cell phone glued to her ear and shoving a big mac in her mouth with the kids bouncing all over the car.

I have no problem with speed traps as long as they are used to promote safety and not income for cities or counties and that the ticket it written in the spirit of the law and not 38 in a 35...

I don't condone speeding or violating traffic laws...that said, I can attest that sensitive X, K and Ka band detectors are extremely effective if you pay close atention to them. What they are *less* effective with, is LASER detection. IR laser speed radar is limited by line of sight and weather conditions, but when in use by law enforcement, your laser-capable detector is not likely to detect the beam in time for you to adjust your speed before the officer has your reading. You might luck out and detect laser emissions reflected off of cars up ahead...but probably not. Since more cops are carrying laser guns around, it behooves us all to drive within the posted speed limits eh? ;-)

Juncyard - by state law all of the proceeds garnered from traffic citations go to the school systems of the counties that they are issued. The state, nor the agency that wrote the ticket, nor the officer, nor the county legislators receive a single dime. Just thought I would throw that out there.

I wonder if I can get the special paint they use on the stealth bombers, it absorbs radar waves. Hmmmmmmm

No, I am not confused, I just know more about music and, it would seem, physics, than you. A pitch (i.e. a musical note) is a vibration, the measurement of the oscillation being some denomination of hertz (like megahertz, gigahertz, etc.). If the tuning fork has an oscillation rate, which it must, what is that oscillation rate? That measurement can be converted into the concomitant musical note. So again - can you tell me what the oscillation rates and/or pitches of the tuning forks are? Tell you what, take the forks, hit one next to a piano, and go up and down the keyboard until the piano matches the fork. Then ask someone what that note is.

That may be true Blue and I have zero problem with it going there. I do however have a problem if that is a driving factor for the issue of the citation.

As long as it's enforced in the spirt of the law...write on my good man.

Pleshy - LOL, my friend its not the music theory of the tuning forks that mesmorises me more than it does you - its the effect that I get once the "notes" have been played.

Hey, TB, how fast does your cop car go? Just kidding, nobody can outrun a radio.

I have a Valentine One and since I have had it, the only tickets I got were because I passed an unmarked car. One of the tickets was 94 in a 65, but I'm not sure he actually clocked me, because my lawyer got the charge thrown out. I passed him too.

The Valentine One picks up radar from pretty far away, so even when johnny law is just lighting up folks one at a time, I usually know it long before I get to his location, especially if it's somewhere I've been before and know the false positives.

The main thing is, when I get pulled, I'm always polite, turn on the interior lights if it's night, engine off, flashers on, window down and hands on the steering wheel. When asked "Do you know how fast you were going?", I just say I am not *completely* sure.

Thanks for the info!!!

heh heh heh....Valentines are pretty good actually.

Good Grief! In all my previous years of Law Enforcement, I've never heard such a Total Load of Cr*p!

Someone had some underlying issues.

Pleshy seems stuck on the tuning forks. The exact frequencies varies with the band of the radar. X band or K or Ka. For upper X band, 9375 Mhz the doppler shift is about 33Hz per mile per hour. So for 55mph the fork would be 1815Hz. A over middle C is 440Hz. In the mid60's I worked for a company that maintained the radio and radar equipment for a coastal city in NC. With the equipment of that day shaking a ring of keys in front of the radar would produce some wild readings.

"True Blue - I know, every cop using radar is required to calibrate in that manner as a SOP for running radar. My question is What are the pitched for the two tuning forks used to calibrate. The speeds being calibrated are 35 and 55 - but the tuning forks have a pitch, a musical note. What are the musical notes for the calibrating tuning forks?"----

Lets be clear. We do NOT calibrate the radar at the beginning of the shift and every stop. We DO check the radar unit for accuracy following a specific procedure for the mode we used to clock you. Knowing the "musical note" of the forks is not required. I couldn't tell you what it is.

"enforcement only, eh? no trying to infuence the DA/ judge from you, right, quotaboy? another vindictive fool who believes the HIS WORD IS THE LAW."----

Sounds like it's happened to you. Maybe you ought to think about how you interact with people.

"No, I am not confused, I just know more about music and, it would seem, physics, than you. A pitch (i.e. a musical note) is a vibration, the measurement of the oscillation being some denomination of hertz (like megahertz, gigahertz, etc.). If the tuning fork has an oscillation rate, which it must, what is that oscillation rate? That measurement can be converted into the concomitant musical note. So again - can you tell me what the oscillation rates and/or pitches of the tuning forks are? Tell you what, take the forks, hit one next to a piano, and go up and down the keyboard until the piano matches the fork. Then ask someone what that note is."----

Why would you ask that? Who cares? They are different for each type of RADAR being used. For instance, a 30mph fork for an X Band is different than a 30 mph fork for Ka. But again, it's not required knowledge so it's not worth talking about, really.

I'm watching for you every time I'm out in the Z-28 or the Corvette....

Just another azzhole cop blowing his smoke and trying to be a big man. What a loser. Probably didn't make the football team in high school.

"When asked "Do you know how fast you were going?", I just say I am not *completely* sure" ..... since the speedo only goes to 120.

I recall a JC Sheriff Deputy mentioning "there's 480 miles of roads in the county, and 8 of us on patrol late at night".

Pretty good odds!

:-)

"Just another azzhole cop blowing his smoke and trying to be a big man. What a loser. Probably didn't make the football team in high school."---

He was trying to give you an understanding on how things work, but apparently you've had some run-ins as well. hmmmmm.

*sigh* I love the "satisfied" customers.....must've been someone I tazed or pepper sprayed on the side of the road

As far as football go's I was too busy stealing all the jocks and footplayers girlfriends to worry about throwing a ball around.

I am starting to change my thinking on enforcement of our laws. Since so many people tend to pick and choose which ones they will not break, I vote for pure anarchy. So drive as fast as you want, ignore the stops signs and red lights. Oh a bit low on cash. Strong arm someone at the ATM. Someone cuts you off in traffic, make sure you retaliate in a meaningful way. We will still have a role for the LEOs. They can patrol and just call in meat wagons when they see some carnage. They will be required to not stop and see if you survived. They will be much safer that way. The positive side of this is, eventually the roads will be very empty and safe again for sane drivers.

Hmmm. There definitely seems to be a lot of dissatisfied customers chiming in. If you can't do the time... you know the rest. Man up and go on.

The last time I got popped was on I-40 and they were shooting radar off that bridge that goes to Umstead just before you get to Harrison Ave. in Cary.

They had troopers sitting on the side of the road as the guy sighting called out your position. The trooper said the spotter called out an older brand of a car with a old bald headed guy with the windows down and his arm hanging out the window. I asked him who the heII he was calling older... ;^)

I was only doing 80MPH and he said I was the slowest one they pulled at the time. Most were going 90+. He said they'd give me 74 in a 65MPH since I was cooperative and not an a-hole. I was cool with that. 80 is a comfortable speed.

"As far as football go's I was too busy stealing all the jocks and footplayers girlfriends to worry about throwing a ball around."

Hey, why bother with jock girlfriends when there are so many strippers around???

Bottom line:

There is nothing to be gained by being impolite or confrontational with the officer. The correct time and place for that sort of thing is later, in court, and it's far better handled by your attorney than by you.

My own goal when stopped is to be as polite as possible, record anything and everything that I possibly can about the encounter and get away from it as quickly and painlessly as possible. If there's any fighting to be done, I let my attorney handle it after the fact in court, where that sort of thing belongs.

One thing is a fact -- if a LEO is on the job long enough, s/he'll spend some time scraping some dead speeder off of what's left of their car, the highway and whatever they've hit.

That person probably felt like a genius as they were driving faster than their skill and equipment would be able to handle just a few seconds before they wiped out.

Most everyone drives a few miles over the speed limit. It's hard to drive and not go 50 in a 45, or 70 in a 65, etc. But the idiots who think it's cool to go 95 in a 65 and put my family in danger, well, I want True Blue to hand you a nice little invitation to talk to the judge about your driving habits.

There is only one time I was stopped that I know there was no way I was speeding in that area that he pulled me in. I was 16. Dead stop (on a bridge, cars stopped at traffic light). I was accused of hitting 55 mph from a dead stop before I hit the 55 mph zone which was approx. 60 feet from where I was stopped. This particular officer was eventually charged with several things when Operation Tarnished Badge was conducted on the Robeson County Sheriff's Dept. Almost makes the cost of my ticket worth it. :) That being said, I haven't had a ticket for any moving violation since I was 21 years old, and I am now 42. The ones I did get, I deserved. :)

i always do the speed limit much to the dismay of the person behind me. I don't know why but i'm a wreckaphobe. Keep up the good work. I got passed on a double yellow while trying to turn right he just went right past me and turned right. Gosh what I wouldn't give to have been a cop for just one second. And if you're ever in fuquay WAGSTAFF road is AWFUL! They fly and they cross the center line on curves then look surprised when they meet a car. I've actually had to stop my car or take a chance on hitting the guy on the wrong side of the road on a blind curve. Send someone over. There are lots of hiding places and I promise you won't catch me doing anything wrong. I just want to take pictures of all of the people crossing the center line and mail it in but i know it wouldn't help.

I was stopped a couple of weeks ago on I-85 in Spartanbug, SC. When the LEO asked me why I was running so fast I just said the first thing that popped into my head, "Oh, I'm just in a hurry to get home." While he was running my plate I was trying to tote up in my head how much this was going to cost me. He came back and handed me a warning and said to be careful. I thanked him and was definitely careful the rest of the trip.

If I'm speeding, I know I'm speeding. If I'm caught, I deserved to be caught. I worked radar on I-64 and I-75 in KY many years ago and we heard all the excuses and reasons you posted and then some. Rarely, would anyone admit to it.

One thing about those days that really irked me was that state legislators could not be ticketed IAW KRS if the legislature was in session. Don't know if that's the case in NC.

My one and only time that I've been stopped for speeding, I was driving the kids to school on Valentine's Day. My son had a field trip and was trying to get to school early so he could pass out his Valentine's. When the officer asked if I knew I was speeding, my brain was saying, "Lie and deny!" But the "mom" in me couldn't do that, especially in front of the kids. So I admitted. When the officer walked to his car to verify my license/reg, the kids (very young) asked if I was in trouble/going to jail. I still had my window rolled down and I answered, no but I was getting a ticket, which I deserved, b/c I was driving too fast. I was explaining this to the kids (trying to make a lesson out of it) when the officer returned to my window. He'd heard me taking responsibility and explaining it to the kids and he gave me a warning only. That was the first and last time I've been pulled for speeding.

I liked your post. It's the smart ones like you who learn. The ones who keep getting tickets can't seem to understand that it's their fault they keep getting caught. They then come on here and complain about the police.

If I get pulled I love doing this to my officer.. Wait until he gets right up on me (and usually at a high rate to catch up) pull over and lock them brakes down. One almost rear-ended me and had to swerve to miss me. he was upset and asked why I did it- "why officer you scared me- I just wanted to stop".. haaaaa- I wanted him to eat my hind-end- and he almost did.. idiot.

"If I get pulled I love doing this to my officer.. Wait until he gets right up on me (and usually at a high rate to catch up) pull over and lock them brakes down. One almost rear-ended me and had to swerve to miss me. he was upset and asked why I did it- "why officer you scared me- I just wanted to stop".. haaaaa- I wanted him to eat my hind-end- and he almost did.. idiot."---

You're a moron, and you're going to get someone hurt because you're trying to play games. I would have charged you with reckless and taken you to jail for it. Congratulations, yours is the most ridiculous post I've seen all week. You win a free toaster. Too bad the prize wasn't driving school.

True Blue In Wake County...I've seen you around but I don't think we have met. Anyway, I just wanted to stop in and say that you have a really well-written and informative blog. Thanks for sharing.

Great blog! Its so true that if you are polite and cooperative, you'll be much better off. Believe me, I have quite a lead foot :)

To all those people who talk about "quotas," my husband (an LEO) has a great response when a speeder makes a smart remark. He says "yep, two more today and I get a toaster." :)

"I'm not as thunk as you drink I am ociffer"{;o)

Keep up the good work!!!!

A male driver is pulled over by a cop and the following conversation takes place...

Man: What's the problem officer? Cop: You were going at least 75 in a 55 zone. Man: No sir, I was going 65. Wife: Oh Harry. You were going 80. (Man gives his wife a dirty look.)

Cop: I'm also going to give you a ticket for your broken tail light. Man: Broken tail light? I didn't know about a broken tail light! Wife: Oh Harry, you've known about that tail light for weeks. (Man gives his wife a dirty look.)

Cop: I'm also going to give you a citation for not wearing your seat belt. Man: Oh, I just took it off when you were walking up to the car. Wife: Oh Harry, you never wear your seat belt. Man: Shut your mouth, woman!

Cop: Ma'am, does your husband always talk to you this way? Wife: No, only when he's drunk.

If I get pulled I love doing this to my officer.. Wait until he gets right up on me (and usually at a high rate to catch up)

You know whats really great about that - I charge you with C & R, you beg and snivel in front of the judge with your "I was just trying to slow down and he scared me" routine, who of course reviews the stop from the on-board cam, he finds you guilty with no PJC and you eat both the ticket, the insurance hike or drop you based on the report that I will fax to them and guess who pays for the damage ocurred to your vehicle *ta-da* you!!! if it sounds like we as LEO's are familiar with this tactic - maybe its because we are and so are judges and certainly the insurance companies - you get an F plus for effort though.

"What? No way, your radar is wrong"

"Yes, the radar does have its "moments" as far as accuracy - if in doubt, I don't stop the car. 25% of all radar tickets are in error."

Quite disturbing first you make comments about excuses as shown above and then you admit 1-4 reading are inaccurate. Now that is pretty scary.

LOL. This is a real nice blog. I am going to school for a criminal justice degree and I love to read stuff like this.

But I am a major speed demon. A typical trip to the beach is running 80 to 90. Sorry. Maybe I need to be the next nascar chick just to get that feeling out huh? My hubby always jokes about how he will get a ticket before me.

I guess you can say its addicting to go fast, to feel that adrenaline rush when you passing cars on a highway going soooo fast. WOOOOHOOOO

Have a wonderful day and drive safe. LOL

haaahaaaahaaaa....Wral has put an ad on the upper right on this page titled, "Fight Your Ticket" and even has a picture of a cop holding a radar gun!!! Anyone else see it?

Leo-nc I pray you pull me next.. lets see if your charge would hold up in court. You wanna fly up on people at high rates of speed, then you get to deal with having to stop or eat my hide. (I hope the latter so I could sue you!)

The funny thing is the moron that pulled me did so- not for speeding, but for not wearing a seatbelt. I was in my 1971 muscle car and it was not equipped with a "shoulder strap". When I showed him it was across my lap- how could he see it- he still wrote me a ticket. I went to dealership, go a copy of the parts for the seat/seatbelt for my car. Took this to the DA and walllaaa- it was dismissed on the spot.. Now imagine if moron was to have hit me from behind for a infraction that was not even a infraction??? sorry- I dont care for cops- most are highschool jocks that could not get jobs elsewhere.. (I do however like you trublue- you seem like a good guy.) --very rare among most officers.

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