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johnnymalaria: blog

johnnymalaria's blog


the oxymoron john and barack agree on

Published Oct. 7, 2008

I'm talking about "clean coal".  Somehow it is supposed to help the environment.  Obviously, it can't do diddly regarding CO2 (even if you do believe that we are responsible for climate change - which I don't).

But clean coal is a crock and encouraging even more mountain top removal to get at coal is reprehensible.  As someone has said, liquid coal can turn any hybrid Prius into a Hummer.

(BTW, the technological goal is the same thing Hitler tried to do to ensure a supply of fuel for his war machine.)

From http://www.tristateobserver.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=9565

The term “clean coal” describes various processes that remove pollutants from coal, our cheapest, most abundant—and dirtiest—energy source. By reducing coal’s environmental footprint through technological wizardry, the coal mining industry and the Bush administration hope to keep coal, which currently produces more than half of all U.S. electricity, a big part of our energy picture for many years to come.

Clean coal proponents also want to liquefy coal to turn it into a form of automotive fuel that, according to the industry-sponsored Coal-to-Liquids Coalition, costs less and burns cleaner in some ways than the traditional diesel fuel it could replace. Several members of Congress from coal states are keen o­n having the government subsidize the production of so-called liquid coal—which can be used anywhere diesel fuel currently goes—as a “homegrown” alternative to foreign oil. Industry analysts say there is enough coal in America to last hundreds of years, saving us untold expense and trouble obtaining regular petroleum from unfriendly foreign governments.

But major environmental groups, from the Sierra Club to the Natural Resources Defense Council, say that “clean coal” is anything but. The process involves heating coal to 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit and mixing it with water to produce a gas, then converting the gas into diesel fuel. Although the Coal-to-Liquids Coalition says that carbon dioxide emissions from the entire production cycle of liquid coal are “equal to, or slightly below, those of conventional petroleum-derived fuels,” its claims are based o­n a single federal study, now six years old, that environmental leaders disagree with profoundly.

Jim Presswood, federal energy advocate of the Natural Resources Defense Council says, “Liquid CO2 emissions are twice as much as emissions from conventional petroleum-derived fuels.” He says that even if CO2 emissions were captured as part of the process, at best liquid coal would be 12 percent worse than the gasoline equivalent.

As some environmentalists have put it, liquid coal can turn any hybrid Prius into a Hummer.

The Washington Post editorialized, “To wean the U.S. off of just o­ne million barrels of the 21 million barrels of crude oil consumed daily, an estimated 120 million tons of coal would need to be mined each year. The process requires vast amounts of water, particularly a concern in the parched West. And the price of a plant is estimated at $4 billion.” Also, in recent years, particularly in Appalachia, mining companies have gone from simple excavation to blasting off the tops of mountains in an ecologically devastating process known as “mountain top removal.”

For their part, greens acknowledge the importance of cleaning up coal and other dirty energy sources, but would rather see more funding devoted to researching, developing and implementing alternative and renewable energy sources that don’t come with so much environmental baggage.



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Go to states such as West Virginia and see what the think about coal minning.

OK JM.. thanks for clearing it up. I think they are wrong about it being good for the country.

Actually, the carbon emissions would be higher.

The industry is deliberately confusing the two goals of pollutant removal (sulfur etc) and collecting CO2 at the point of combustion. The latter is iffy to say the least and, if possible, would be applicable to other fossil fuels. It is clear to me that the public are unwittingly believing it to be a global warming solution when it is actually a foreign oil dependency issue.

yep- I see where she told W VA supporters she was for this process to. This is stupid of all of them. This still creates carbon immissions, not as much.

A video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PabyFxD2mFc&feature=related

ladyblue - the oxymoron is "clean coal". I'm not suggesting McCain and Obama are morons (this time!)

ridgerunner - the desperation probably overcame the cost. The fuel was derived from coal. The technology originated in the 1930s.

whatelseisnew - sadly, mountain topping is very real. There are videos to show it and you only have to drive through parts of the east to see the results.

Hydrogen is an interesting point. *If* burning fossil fuels is causing global warming, then it is because of the greenhouse gases created by the combustion. There are two: CO2 and water. Water is a more potent greenhouse gas that CO2! This implies that it is the water that is more responsible, not the CO2. Hydrogen burns with O2 to give...water.

Personally, I believe it is a non-sense. People (IPCC, Gore, McCain, Obama etc) trot out invalid pseudoscience that defies basic physical chemistry (thermodynamics and all that good stuff).

Still, H2 energy sources will be clean, excluding the environmental impact of creating the technology to generate the H2.

Well they are both oxymorons then. I din't know he was for that. I thought sarah was against it but more on natural gas. I got to look this up. this surprises me.

Seems I recall reading about Hitlers war machine running on synthetic fuels in the last year of the war. If they could do it then why can we not do it now? We do have processes that will remove a lot of coals polutants but the environmental groups would rather fight it than have us free from foreign oil.

Blasting mountains apart is ridiculous. If all you say here is true, it sounds to me like coal liquidification is a really bad idea. I think normal use in power generation makes sense and they need to continue improving the scrubber technology to reduce emissions as much as possible. The answer to powering cars and other vehicles seems to continue to elude us. Perhaps for some decades we may have to deal with gasoline, diesel, electric, CNG, and so on in a mix. Many think Hydrogen is the ultimate solution, but many of these alternatives are still a long ways off. Another option would be to get 250 million of us to move somewhere else. Not sure if that idea will fly though.

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