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theycallmethefireman2: blog

theycallmethefireman2's blog


second amendment

Published Jun. 26, 2008

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

 

 

Let’s look at what a militia is.  Some say that this is a state regulated military force, an example maybe the National Guard.  According to Wikipedia, The term militia is commonly used today to refer to a military force composed of ordinary citizens to provide defense, emergency law enforcement, or paramilitary service, in times of emergency without being paid a regular salary or committed to a fixed term of service.  The term "militia" is derived from Latin roots: miles /miːles/ : soldier -itia /iːtia/ : a state, activity, quality or condition of being.  The early colonists of America considered the militia an important social structure, necessary to defend their colonies from Indian attacks. "They were a group of citizens who would be ready to fight in any emergency".  There is really two parts to the Second Amendment, the first part states, “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state”.  By several definitions that you can find, all point to a militia being comprised of ordinary members of society, not organized, trained, or paid by any government.  Today, the government does not require citizens to serve in organized militias. Gun prohibition advocates claim that the Second Amendment therefore has no practical meaning.  Thomas Cooley, the greatest American legal scholar of the latter 19th century, anticipated this argument and explained why government neglect of the militia (the first clause) did not negate the second clause: If Second Amendment rights were limited to those enrolled in a militia, "the purpose of this guaranty might be defeated altogether by the action or neglect to act of the government it was meant to hold in check. The meaning of the provision undoubtedly is, that the people, from whom the militia must be taken, shall have the right to keep and bear arms, and they need no permission or regulation of law for the purpose."  Then there is the second part of the Second Amendment, “right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”  I don’t see how this could ever be interpreted but one way, don’t mess with my gun.  The rights afford by the Second Amendment go well beyond just the rights to defend myself from intruders, or wild animals, it is to protect me from the government also.  A nation of citizenry that is armed cannot be oppressed.  A nation of unarmed citizens cannot rise up against Tyranny, and therefore become little more than slaves to their government.  I found some interesting quotes on this subject that I wanted to share……

 

The possession of arms by the people is the ultimate warrant that government governs only with the consent of the governed.

-- Jeff Snyder 

 

As the Founding Fathers knew well, a government that does not trust its honest, law-abiding, taxpaying citizens with the means of self-defense is not itself worthy of trust. Laws disarming honest citizens proclaim that the government is the master, not the servant, of the people.

-- Jeff Snyder

 

When only cops have guns, it's called a "police state".

-- Claire Wolfe, "101 Things To Do Until The Revolution"

 

Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.

-- James Madison, The Federalist Papers

 

"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."

-- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-188

 

"Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest."

-- Mohandas Gandhi, An Autobiography, pg 446

 

"One of the ordinary modes, by which tyrants accomplish their purposes without resistance, is, by disarming the people, and making it an offense to keep arms."

-- Constitutional scholar and Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story, 1840

 

"The bearing of arms is the essential medium through which the individual asserts both his social power and his participation in politics as a responsible moral being..."

-- J.G.A. Pocock, describing the beliefs of the founders of the U.S.

 

Men trained in arms from their infancy, and animated by the love of liberty, will afford neither a cheap or easy conquest.

-- From the Declaration of the Continental Congress, July 1775.

 

"As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives [only] moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun, therefore, be the constant companion to your walks."

-- Thomas Jefferson, writing to his teenaged nephew.

 

The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."

-- Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story of the John Marshall Court

 

Militias, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves and include all men capable of bearing arms. [...] To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.

-- Senator Richard Henry Lee, 1788, on "militia" in the 2nd Amendment

 

"...quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est." [...a sword never kills anybody; it's a tool in the killer's hand.]

-- (Lucius Annaeus) Seneca "the Younger" (ca. 4 BC-65 AD),

 

False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.

-- Cesare Beccaria, as quoted by Thomas Jefferson's Commonplace book

 

No kingdom can be secured otherwise than by arming the people. The possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman and a slave.

-- "Political Disquisitions", a British republican tract of 1774-1775

 

"To disarm the people... was the best and most effectual way to enslave them."

-- George Mason, speech of June 14, 1788

 

The danger (where there is any) from armed citizens, is only to the *government*, not to *society*; and as long as they have nothing to revenge in the government (which they cannot have while it is in their own hands) there are many advantages in their being accustomed to the use of arms, and no possible disadvantage.

-- Joel Barlow, "Advice to the Privileged Orders", 1792-93

 

An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.

-- Robert A. Heinlein, "Beyond This Horizon", 1942

 

The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to permit the conquered Eastern peoples to have arms. History teaches that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doing so.

-- Adolph Hitler, April 11 1942.

 

Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws.

-- Edward Abbey, "Abbey's Road", 1979

 



21 Comments


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FWIW, if you are directing that at me, you old cow, you are way off base.

Yes! elcid was wrong, and should be eating up a nice tasty plate of crow, right about now! mmmmmm!!!!!

Yes, more legal battles are to follow! And yes, there is a need for ownership laws. After all, total freedom is anarchy.

drb - yes, fundamental rights to all mankind, BUT, again, applies to those under the protection of the U.S. constitution, i.e. citizens. The recognition of basic human rights in our counrties foundation does not mean it is legally applied to all, regardless of citizenry.

Of course, we keep warring with countries that don't need/want us, we may make it more global. I don't think that is right either.

Realistically Skip (and I'm not a lawyer) it seems to me that they basically tried to make everyone happy with this decision. They found a fundamental individual right that can't be infringed, but at the same time held that it could be regulated as lawmakers saw fit. That seems a tad contradictory to me, and will probably just set the stage for the next battle to be fought over.

"I was voicing my opinion as to whether or 2nd amendment rights should apply only to citizens. In a word, yes. If you are not a citizen of a particular country, why should that countries rights and privileges be bestowed upon you? The constitution and it's amendments were made for the citizens of the US, right?"

That's just the point. The reasoning the justices employed characterizes the right itself as being fundamental for all people and not dependent on citizenship for its existence. In other words, we don't have a right to bear arms because the Constitution gives it to us. The Constitution simply prevents the government from taking it away from us. It exists in and of itself without regard to citizenship.

danriverboy - yes, big picture, nature of man as a free being is all nice and good, BUT, legal protection based on our constitution is the question. Yes, a person accepting no yoke of government rules could bear arms or do anything they want. But, being part of the American community, a community of laws, where should we draw the line inside out own borders?

I'd hate to think the any foreigh radicals could come to America and arm themselves without restriction.

I understand the fundamental right to bear arms, however, as a country we have the right to protect our citizens. I'm not arguing the meaning behind amendments, etc. I was voicing my opinion as to whether or 2nd amendment rights should apply only to citizens. In a word, yes. If you are not a citizen of a particular country, why should that countries rights and privileges be bestowed upon you? The constitution and it's amendments were made for the citizens of the US, right?

i can keep my gun under my pilow another day!

So my blog would be to see other opinons about a hard line between legal citizens/visitors vs. illegals.

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