aquamama: blog 
aquamama's blog
flds kids and forced religion
Published May. 22, 2008I've been thinking a lot about the FLDS kids. I don't agree with the religion's beliefs, but I'm all about freedom of religion. The Texas courts have recently (today) said that child protection services had no right to go into their compound and remove every child. I'm glad for the moms who are probably sick over the loss of their children. I'm glad for the kids, who mostly don't know what's going on. I hope those families are reunited SOON.
Now for the nitty gritty: their prophet needs to be deposed, and the followers' minds need to be freed. The LDS church, like any other organized religion, changes with the times. Two major changes it made were 1) renouncing plural marriages and 2) allowing people of color into the priesthood. IMHO, it's still a&& backwards, especially with its view of women. One of the primary teachings of both the FLDS and LDS churches is obedience. Fortunately for me, I was born defiant and left the LDS church in my early teens, like 100% of the other Mormon girls I knew who didn't live in Utah. The women of the FLDS church need to learn defiance. Kudos to Elissa Wall, the girl who knew it was wrong for a 14-year-old to be married to her 19-year-old cousin. It was her case that sent Warren Jeffs to prison. Unfortunately, minds don't change overnight. I also don't see any current member itching to become the leader who went against the teachings of the prophet.
CPS wanted the FLDS parents to receive parenting classes based on current Texas law, e.g. what the age of consent is, and I wish those classes would still happen. Because like it or not, obedience also means following the law.
Also, the men need to own up to their behavior. They know what's right and what's wrong. An equal tragedy to requiring utter obedience from women is teaching your son to expect it. This arrangement can easily end in abuse of power. So many young women I know- who were "good little girls," who were taught to please others, and who were rewarded when they showed obedience- suffered at the hands of abusers- physical, sexual, and mental- all because they were told that was the right way to be. Be obedient and get hit? Or raped? Wow! Thanks, God, for rewarding my obedience. (Disclaimer: There is no such thing as the thought police- yet- so please don't take offense at that last statement.)
These are just some of my thoughts recently. I'm raising my daughters (and sons) to be freethinking, strong, defiant, logical, self-sufficient, and maybe even a little radical. I'm teaching them to question authority (although that backfires sometimes), to demand justice, and to consider others as their equals. And while I support the FLDS members' right to choose and practice their religion, demanding that a child follow the same religion is not giving them a choice and forcing them to practice the same. I wish all children were given the opportunity to decide for themselves.
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Boy is this true! :-) This group amply demonstrates the human potential for bizarre societies when allowed to develop in isolation for a long period of time. Personally I find the results repulsive and degrading, especially when a charismatic misfit is able to steer the course of the group. Amazingly, the members of these "cults" seem blissfully unaware of how messed up they look to the rest of us. Here again I would like to see this type of indoctrination abolished, (my rational skepticism showing) but I know that the establishment clause in the constitution will lose it's meaning if we assume the power to interfere with these groups without probable cause. My greatest desire, though, would be to find a way to protect children from indoctrination into 'any' belief system before they have the cognitive ability to choose for themselves.
GOLO member since March 18, 2008
May 24, 2008 12:17 a.m.
I am 100% in support of a person practicing their beliefs (even these FLDS folks) as long as they (1) don't proselytize to those not interested, and (2) as long as they obey the law. Steve's hypothetical excursion into the world of cannibalism runs afoul of #2.. slick rick's objection to complete non-interference (if I understand) is that the potential exists within a closed society like FLDS for the state and federal laws to be violated with impunity. Polygamy is illegal... and so is marriage below a certain age (depending on the state) Any other aspect of their "faith" is their business no matter how distasteful we may find it. What I have no answer for, is a good method of probing a closed "cult" such as FLDS for violations without trampling on their constitutionally guaranteed freedom of religion. At least we avoided another 'Waco' this time.
GOLO member since March 18, 2008
May 23, 2008 11:51 p.m.
GOLO member since July 3, 2007
May 23, 2008 10:55 a.m.
This is an interesting point, but it is easily applicable to all religions. There is a movie about a christian camp, that indoctrines children to be "god's soldiers". Is this any worse?
I'd suspect that most kids follow their parent's religion, because that is how they are raised. I also suspect that many devout religious adults have only been part of one religion their whole life, based on their parent's views.
May 23, 2008 8:45 a.m.
Actually, you obviously do not know me at all. I would, in fact, allow my daughter to move in with her boyfriend at the age of 16 if she wanted to. Call me crazy, but it's her life. I am not saying I would support her very much, if at all. However, I would allow her to make her own choices in life.
Again, this isn't even the point here. The point is that the girls may not be allowed to leave if they are in fact living in a nightmare, which is a possibility.
GOLO member since March 31, 2008
May 22, 2008 7:24 p.m.
I see the point you are trying to make there, but it is irrelevant here. The issue here is are these kids safe? If so, let them return. If certain men at flds are responsible, prosecute them.
How is it a reasonable possibility that these kids may not be safe? As Elcid said, they are, at best, an oddity, and thats putting it charitably. They practice suchs things as polygamy involving very young children being marrried to men much, much older than them. This is all occurring under the unbrella of a church that views a man such as Warren Jeffs to be a prophet. Jeffs was convicted of assisting in the rape of teenage girls that were married (possibly forcibly) to relatives. He could also be tried for the same thing with older men. His daughter claims that he molested her starting at a very young age. Many other people that have been affected by him have very damaging things to say.
GOLO member since March 31, 2008
May 22, 2008 7:09 p.m.
&
"I'm not seeing a nightmare existence for the kids in Texas."
Should we take that to imply that you favor the subservience of women? :-D
GOLO member since September 6, 2007
May 22, 2008 6:50 p.m.
GOLO member since September 6, 2007
May 22, 2008 6:48 p.m.
GOLO member since March 31, 2008
May 22, 2008 6:30 p.m.
GOLO member since July 3, 2007
May 22, 2008 6:26 p.m.
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