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@NCCapitol
Sen. Stan Bingham, R-Davidson
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Bill would allow for arming school volunteers

Published: 2013-01-31 11:57:00
Updated: 2013-02-01 20:40:51

Certain teachers and other volunteers could be designated as "school safety marshals" and be allowed to carry firearms in emergency situations under a bill filed by Sen. Stan Bingham, R-Davidson. 

Bingham said that he had met with sheriffs to talk about how school safety could be increased in the wake of the Newtown, Conn., school shooting.

There have been suggestions that any teacher with a concealed handgun permit be allowed to carry it onto educational property. 

But Bingham said that concealed carry permit holders have only a few hours of training and are not necessarily required to practice with their weapons as a law enforcement officials are.

"That's not near enough training," he said.

Rather, Senate Bill 27 would call for the North Carolina Criminal Justice Education and Training Standards Commission to come up with a training regimen for volunteers.

Bingham said he envisioned teachers who were retired from the military as ideal candidates. He said the bill would also allow for volunteers who live near schools to be trained.

As explained by Bingham, the bill would not call for marshals to be armed full time. Rather, they would respond to a lock-box to retrieve a firearm in case of an intruder. That procedure is not specifically outlined in the bill. 

Many school districts in urban areas where there are lots of law enforcement nearby may not feel the need for such volunteers, he said.

"This may help rural districts, where help is more than a few minutes away," he said. 

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Has anyone thought about the fact that an outraged student could overpower who ever has the gun and take the weapon and USE IT themselves to cause MORE harm than good-justdontgetit

Already addressed.

1) The gun is locked up in this idea

2) Even not locked up they make retention holsters (someone even linked a video earlier showing how it stops this scenario)

Apparently even the folks in Newtown conneticuit have figured out the best way to stop an armed bad guy is with an armed good guy-

http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/Newtown-Votes-for-Armed-School-Officers-189320221.html?dr

Sounds like alot of people just want to keep the status quo do nothing and just play the odds that nothing will happen. Well, go ahead and pick up the dice and let her roll. Just remember that for all the winners there will eventually be a looser as well. It's inevitable. You can never prevent it but you may have the power to stop it.

Yep just what we need... instead of KEEPING GUNS OFF SCHOOL PROPERTY let them BRING more onto the property.... Has anyone thought about the fact that an outraged student could overpower who ever has the gun and take the weapon and USE IT themselves to cause MORE harm than good??

Some people that make the laws need to sit back and think and maybe a little light will go off in their heads and go "Hey this isn't a good idea after all"

Fine in theory but what is more likely is the extra guns in the schools will simply increase the numbers of people "going postal" and the number of accidents.- Grand Union

No, it's really not.

You can tell, because such guards have been in schools for years or decades in much of the country, and what you describe doesn't happen.

So reality trumps your "what is likely" scaremongering.

Hve you seen our salaries and all that we go through???! Guns in schools~NO WAY!

And when the first "trained volunteer" ends up killing a kid due to insanity, stupidity or negligence, what then?- Grand Union

the same thing that happens when the armed guards already in all the other schools go nuts.

or the armed guards in banks

Or the armed guards anywhere else in the US.

Which is virtually never as far as I can tell.

""Well why don't we just let the kids bring the guns and the knives back to the school too. Let's just arm everybody. Back to the wild wild west"

Sounds like we have another "kid" to protect from his/her own self. Did children write some of these posts?"

Its called sarcasm.......

"Training (same as LEOs) received by volunteers can help protect my children any time they wish to........and I hope they shoot dead anyone who tries to harm my child or any other."

Fine in theory but what is more likely is the extra guns in the schools will simply increase the numbers of people "going postal" and the number of accidents. Death toll will likely rise not fall. Unless these are fully trained cops this is a bad idea and a waste of money......we will always have nuts but what we can do is make it very hard for them to get a gun.

"Actually, they had a valid point because there have been cases when a person brought a gun to school but were talked down. Those sort of situations should be part of any training"

and how much are you going to raise taxes so that you can have a hobby?

"As the latest gun show at the fairgrounds showed, even experienced gun owners make mistakes that can result in injuries or death."

That was an individual walking in off the street intending on trading/selling his personal weapon. The "trained" vendors, workers, etc had not touched the gun before it "went off". This explains how even "untrained" adults don't know enough to unload a gun before taking into a place like that-or even how to handle it. Training (same as LEOs) received by volunteers can help protect my children any time they wish to........and I hope they shoot dead anyone who tries to harm my child or any other.

"Well why don't we just let the kids bring the guns and the knives back to the school too. Let's just arm everybody. Back to the wild wild west"

Sounds like we have another "kid" to protect from his/her own self. Did children write some of these posts?

"Wow. This is shameful.

OK, then I'm sure you could "opt out" of protection of your kids by trained volunteers.

RE : delta29alpha February 1, 2013 12:37 p.m

Well said,,, and Thanks for your service !!!

RE : From a post below : "the off chance that one time in 10 years, a nut or student starts shooting on school grounds"!

Which is it too many guns? or One off chance in ten years ???

One off chance in ten years ???

What are the odds of "one off chance in ten years"

Please can someone cipher that for me? How would do you do that? by hours, days

I'm readin' smart but not all that number smart,

I understand the odds of getting stuck by lightnin' are very high and so are the odds of winnin' the lottery, but people do win the lottery and people do get stuck by lightnin'

So again,,, what are the odds of : one off chance in ten years?

Please,,,

If the threat is near zero, or so miniscule it does not justify owning a gun or school shootings are so rare,,, Why all the fuss?

They can learn about firearms and laws in a normal conceal carry class. I want them to take extra tactical and situational training specifically geared toward encounters within a school setting. Lightfoot3

True, a tactical course of instruction and qualification could be put together to cover this specific scenario.

I am an army veteran and and also have 22 years of law enforcement street experience. I have 8 years swat experience and sniper qualified. During my time in law enforcement I was also a certified police firearms instructor. I can tell you from personal experience that there are many civilian shooters that are every bit as competent and qualified to carry and use firearms as any officer I have ever known or trained. The qualities required to be a good officer are not restricted to police officers, they are individual qualities inherent in a person. You can find many civilians who are capable of remaining cool and rational under stressful situations and making the proper decisions. Care should be taken when selecting the individual to protect the children. They should possess the proper qualities and be serious about the responsibility they are taking on, serious enough to take part in advanced firearms training on a regular basis, it's just a matter of selecting them.

"Yes, because clearly a guy who is already in the middle of a school shooting is totally calm and rational otherwise. We don't want to do anything that might upset him!" - junkmail5

Actually, they had a valid point because there have been cases when a person brought a gun to school but were talked down.

Those sort of situations should be part of any training.

"A sanctioned volunteer could be required to take the same exact course in firearms and laws regarding the use of deadly force that the police are required to take." - delta29alpha

They can learn about firearms and laws in a normal conceal carry class. I want them to take extra tactical and situational training specifically geared toward encounters within a school setting.

"Conceal carries are delusional nuts" - Grand Union

They're mostly normal people, that you encounter every day. You're irrational because your religion is being anti-gun.

"and who is going to pay for that?" - Grand Union

School budget, or perhaps the volunteers pay their own way.

"so why not have Police?" - Grand Union

Why didn't you ask about who was going to pay for that? Oh right, hypocrisy. But police MIGHT be okay, except I think their general training is not enough.

"or how about we stop crazy folks getting guns" - Grand Union

Great idea as long as it's reasonable, and constitutional. But it won't eliminate all crazies, so let's also have a plan to actually STOP them in the act.

Also, you may end up escalating a situation. It may agitate the intruder- BigUNCFan

Yes, because clearly a guy who is already in the middle of a school shooting is totally calm and rational otherwise. We don't want to do anything that might upset him!

As the latest gun show at the fairgrounds showed, even experienced gun owners make mistakes that can result in injuries or death. Hope this goes ok if passed.

Let me make clear that of the 240 hrs required police training, only about 16 to 24 hrs are spent on firearms(I would have to pull some records to see exactly). A sanctioned volunteer could be required to take the same exact course in firearms and laws regarding the use of deadly force that the police are required to take.

As members of this site we must continue to endure the mockery of a few trolls who diss and dismiss our decision to own and carry concealed firearms. These folks view firearms ownership as a kind of mental illness. They consider armed citizens delusional and paranoid. We see these insults for what they are, a textbook example of psychological projection. By projecting/imposing your incompetence/insecurities/inadequacies/personal feelings on others you have clearly shown that you are indeed justified in your fear of how a firearm in your hands could very likely be used against yourself or a family member. With that said calling 911 and waiting for help to arrive would be your only option for defending your family, I would agree that any weapon in incompetent hands could more than likely be used to accidentally shoot yourself, a family member or it could also be taken from you by the bad guy and used against you... However, Remaining defenseless waiting for police usually doesn't work

The lockbox idea is good in theory but in practice having to take the time to run to the lockbox, find the key, open the box, load the gun if it is not loaded (is the ammo in the lockbox with the gun and is the gun already loaded) may be too much time before the intruder has done his damage.

Also, you may end up escalating a situation. It may agitate the intruder and he may end up just shooting people out of feeling cornered versus talking the guy out of a situation possibly. We are assuming that the person is just going in and shooting right away. Not always the case.

Also the volunteer or teacher may miss the intended target and hit a bystander. It's not as easy as it looks to shoot and hit what you are aiming for. Takes a lot of practice and training.

Finally, knowing how to shoot a gun and actually killing someone are worlds apart. You have to account for the teacher or volunteer freezing when the moment of truth arose to actually pull the trigger.

"Even if it wasn't (and honestly shouldn't be) there are retention holsters that make it very difficult for someone to "grab" your gun away from you while still enabling the wearer to draw it fairly quickly when needed." - junkmail5

There was a recent security guard robery (on video) that proved this point exactly. The robbers couldn't get his gun, but as soon as he had a chance he was able to draw quickly.

"A concealed weapon may not help you" - superman

True. But it also might save your life, as has been shown time and time and time again.

"You cant stop a train--there are just too many ways that things can happen." - superman

As thousands upon thousands of cases prove otherwise, you can stop a criminal with a firearm. Just because it's no guarantee doesn't mean we shouldn't at least try to stop them. Giving up and being sheep is not the solution.

vigilante, person or persons taking the law into their own hands.In other words not sanctioned by law. This word has been getting batted around a bit. But isn't this a discussion about a bill being introduced that would sanction or cause to be legal, this designated person to perform these duties? The only difference between a police officer and anyone else is 240 hrs of training and the sanction of the city, town, or state.

how long before some knucklehead student tries to swipe a gun from a volunteer? What happens then? 27228

Nothing, because in this proposal the gun is locked up someplace.

Even if it wasn't (and honestly shouldn't be) there are retention holsters that make it very difficult for someone to "grab" your gun away from you while still enabling the wearer to draw it fairly quickly when needed.

A concealed weapon may not help you. Remember Rambo has the element of suprise.- superman

and obviously if something is only helpful SOME of the time we just shouldn't bother with it, right?

You recall Pearl Harbour and 911. superman

What country are you from?

"It irks me that people ignorant of firearms and their usage are making the laws concerning their use." This is a good point. It should also apply to our governor, who knows nothing about universities yet wants to change how they're run.

I know this bill's sponsors mean well, but they need to consider this: how long before some knucklehead student tries to swipe a gun from a volunteer? What happens then?

I don't think there should be "gun free zones" anywhere that isn't private property, and at the request of the property owner.

A concealed weapon may not help you. Remember Rambo has the element of suprise. You recall Pearl Harbour and 911.

@caryzoo..I truly resent your attitude toward my home state and the good people who live here. Obviously you are not happy here in OUR state and find it and it's people below your standards. Your superior, self important attitude is extremely unattractive and particularly foul when you denigrate Those who were born and live in this great state. Since obviously we do not come up to your standards and have no intention of changing for you, then I would invite you to go to a state that would more acceptable to you. Thank you, and don't let the door strike you in the posterior on the way out.

Guess you dont think Rambo is smart enough to know that schools usually have more than one door. How about the large number of students outside in the morning getting to school and leaving in the afternoon. Kids outside at lunch. Students transported to and from school on buses. He could take over a school bus loaded with students. You cant stop a train--there are just too many ways that things can happen. A volunteer at the door is like putting your finger in a dam to stop the water.

The guy that taught my concealed carry class is a school teacher. I would trust him with my kids life.

"But Texas already does it and does it well" - Mustange

Also, in other states, apparently concealed carry folks can eat soup and salad at Olive Garden without shooting up the place but apparently our lawmakers think the folks from North Carolina can't handle that. It irks me that people ignorant of firearms and their usage are making the laws concerning their use.

Ahh, so socialism is OKAY when it's pushing an agenda you like huh? Forcing everyone to carry firearms isn't socialism, that's just good ol common sense or something like that. Where are they gonna get the bullets for all those guns? Haven't you heard? We're running out of em. Kinda ironic isn't it? We may end up achieving gun control simply because all of those "folks" ran out to buy up all those guns and now there isn't enough ammo to go around. LOVE IT.

"There's thousands of cases of conceal carry folks stopping crimes" - junkmail5

According the delusional Grand Union and others of that, uh, style of "thinking", that never happens. The Georgia mom that stopped a crowbar wielding intruder from killing her and her two kids??? ....never happened...

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/10/us/home-invasion-gun-rights/index.html?iref=allsearch

"AFAIK there's basically 0 cases of the police showing up and killing the good guy 10 minutes after the incident is already resolved" - junkmail5

Well, there are cases of the police showing up and killing their fellow officers by friendly fire. I wonder why the anti-gunners don't scream for the disarming of the police?

To get guns just break into the cars in the parking lot. Rambo wont even have to remember to bring his own gun. The shooter will take care of the guard from the parking lot. You think the shooter is going to walk up to the armed guard and introduce himself.

"The GA school shooting shows exactly why having armed officers/teachers in the school is not a solution." - European American

No it doesn't. It's a single incident. You can't make blanket statements and judgments from a single incident.

Sounds like a GREAT idea! This could have saved lives in Newton. Definitely need the extra training. Perhaps all concealed carry could get optional extra training to be "school certified". That way teachers might could keep firearms in their car that they could retrieve if necessary, like how the Pearl High School Shooting was stopped.

It might need some tweaking, but at least it's a proposal to actually STOP an ACTIVE shooter.

Do you think police are going to shoot at a person not knowing if they are a volunteer or the shooter?- superman

Why would that matter?

By the time the cops get there there won't be both good and bad shooters still alive.

That's sort of the point of having the good shooter there, rather than waiting for him to show up in a police car after the bad guy killed everyone.

There's thousands of cases of conceal carry folks stopping crimes, and AFAIK there's basically 0 cases of the police showing up and killing the good guy 10 minutes after the incident is already resolved.

It's yet another imaginary fear from people scared of properly used firearms.

The good guys should be required to wear white hats and the bad guys will wear black hats. That way when law enforcement arrives they can determine who to start shooting at. Do you think police are going to shoot at a person not knowing if they are a volunteer or the shooter? I would not want to be a volunteer and the police shoot me thinking I am the perv. Having volunteers with guns will just make it more difficult for law enforement. Maybe Rambo will remember to wear his black ninja suit.

If they protect the front door how about if the person decides to use one of many side doors. What protection is planned when the students are outside. What protection is planned for the many school buses that travel the roads every day. A person can wait at any designated bus stop, get on the bus and take it over. Probably be 20-25 students on the bus. Do they have plans to protect people at school functions such as PTA, sports etc. They are so many things that putting an armed guard and a metal detector at the front foor is foolish. Any person knowing there is a guard and metal detector at the front door will be smart enough to use another entrance.

The comments here are truly mind boggling. It seems that many of you (if the shoe fits) screamed that you want something done to protect the children but scream just as loud with every possible solution. You call the fire department to put the fire out but complain if your house gets wet. There are many assumptions that teachers or NC citizens in general are to uneducated to respond effectively with a firearm if needed. Talk to your local cop of deputy next time you get a chance. You'll find that many of them were unemployed, teachers, burger flippers, janitors etc before they were trained. They were not magically picked from society because of their ability. They voluntered for the traing, were successfull, and now do their best to provide protection for you, the people who complain the most.

caryzoo, I-95 runs both ways.

While I don't agree with the volunteer aspect of the bill something needs to be done. And for all of you just complaining about everyone being ignorant here in NC and full of neanderthals (caryzoo) maybe you should just move. I was not born here. I'm guessing you weren't either. But I hate to tell you but about 75% of the NC population is not from here either. Get a clue.

Volunteers? Teachers would have to "retrieve a weapon from a lockbox"? This is the dumbest suggestion I have heard yet for protecting schools. Does he think the Newtown shooter would have stood around while a volunteer or teacher unlocked a weapon (and ammo as well, separately stored, you know) to deal with him? The last thing teachers need is yet more requirements and training, only this time it's for a non-teaching role. As for volunteers, I can only imagine the casting call that would result should this bill pass. Every yahoo, gun nut and do-gooder would be in line to "protect our kids". After a week of sitting around bored out of their mind, how many would still want the job, I wonder? Plus, the gun toting "volunteer" will soon be identified to the entire school; if a deranged person showed up, he'd be the first one shot. Go back to Davidson County with your harebrained ideas!

I'm so glad my children are grown and don't go to NC public schools anymore. Wait --- maybe this is just a clever ploy by officials to get more people to homeschool their children, thereby saving money on public education.

Mustange..I tell you first and foremost..the whole bill is the brainless child of a person with an IQ of maybe 20.Guns in schools are NOT good. We are not as stupid as Texas (TEXAS...really??) one of the highest poverty/hunger rates in the US) Many do not like them or agree with their backwards and ignorant policies. If you do, by all means, well...move there. Most of us do not believe in guns for kids or crazies, nor do we believe some Joe Schmoe on the street should dictate what our children are exposed to in the school system. GUNS are a big no-no.I never want my kids exposed to some erstwhile teacher who thinks he's God's gift to child safety around my kid, with a gun, no less. Geez! No guns..period. The first time this so called volunteer lets loose for no reason, I will be taking thousands in law suits from this backward and ignorant state. If my child dies, my baby...I will do everything I can to bankrupt this backwards and ignorant place. Are you N.C. people all Neanderthal'

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